Can you be Keto and get really fat?


#103

Thanks Bunny :slight_smile:


(bulkbiker) #104

What has that got to do with it?
I can remain in ketosis at all times eating or not…
you stated a fact “anytime we eat…ketosis…stop(s)”
it doesn’t or at least not in any appreciable way if you don’t eat things that are known to stop ketosis.


(Bunny) #105

Below is from your original citation:

I’m starting to see a connection between what is written below and hydrocortisone (say what?) cortisol and cortisone, but can’t quite figure it out yet and other naturally occurring compounds (“subsequent stimulation with other hormones”) related to lipolysis.

The hormones stored in adipose tissue can turn cortisone back into free cortisol or something like that but hydrocortisone (“subsequent stimulation with other hormones”) could expand fat cells but shrink them to a smaller size than they were previously. But that is really deep pondering hypothetical thought I should not really be sharing and may not be realistic.

When I started looking at this from an unrelated angle it led me right back to what you originally posted which kind of stunned me.

Now this is interesting:

“…The simultaneous presence of GH and insulin during a 16-h culture of rat adipocytes increased the basal lipolytic rate compared with that found when cells were incubated with GH alone. Additionally, the response to isoprenaline was greater in cells cultured with both hormones than the responses of cells cultured with each hormone alone (37). Together, previous and the present findings indicate that chronic exposure of adipocytes to insulin results in alterations in basal lipolytic activity and in their response to subsequent stimulation with other hormones. Thus, it is possible that the presence of insulin in the incubation medium during long term tissue or cell culture is necessary for the effects of cortisol and GH on lipolysis to appear. …More

It almost appears that insulin is required for lipolysis to occur at least in a Petri dish?


#106

According to my doc, my metabolism slows to a creep without my thyroid med, which I have to take daily. At one point, I tried this and went without for a week. UGH! I had no strength, no motivation to move, no motivation to even get up and eat something, I was in slow motion and I gained 15 pounds. Not ever doing that again. I have a badly functioning thyroid from birth, it works a little some of the time only. Apparently this can cause all kinds of seemingly unrelated issues, such as some of your adult teeth missing. It is quite manageable though with proper meds, which I did not get until I was 40. They changed my life. Shedding all the weight is another story though. It’s not automatic once you correct the issue, it takes work and discipline.


(Keto Koala 🐨) #107

That’s all I eat David, meat eggs and a little cheese. I don’t get hungry in between now. I bought a keto recipe book and most of the fancy recipes were as you said , 10 grams of carbs per serving. I have less carbs than that in a day!!


(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #108

Jimmy went on an obesigenic rat chow diet while still maintaing a ketogenic ratio. And as you say he had stress ( = cortisol).


(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #109

With low thyroid, the adipocytes are very insulin sensitive - VERY LITTLE insulin is required to cause LPL to be expressed in the adipocytes. This is adaptive if you do not have antithyroid antibodies, because low thyroid in a healthy individual is a sign of starvation.


#110

Caffeine stimulates lipolysis.

So if you can eat and maintain ketosis at the same level. Then you wouldn’t need your caffeine. Simple logic.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #111

You seem to like distractive tangents instead of dealing with your completely erroneous statement that if you eat anything ketosis stops. Which is flat out wrong. Explain how people lose weight on a keto diet eating three meals a day and snacks sometimes? If you’re keeping carbs low you go into ketosis regardless of eating or not. And I can’t figure out how your train of thought has anything to do with the topic. :roll_eyes:


(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #112

For example…
I had a dessert of cheesecake filling, some strawberries (2 1/2), and some 95% chocolate… (yummy)

I had some fascinating results!

I was happy to see my ketones go UP after eating, which means that what I ate had to have been low carb and nice and fatty (which it was)… Now, if only I could keep ketones about double the 1.2 all day, without eating… I blame the meds… but I am going to be doing some testing to try to see what’s going on.


(bulkbiker) #113

Still don’t see why eating stops ketosis which is what you said.
Coffee has zero to do with it?
Are you being obtuse or am I missing something here?


(Full Metal KETO AF) #114

@MarkGossage Yeah, a while back she told us Vitamin C causes kidney stones, eating while seated gives you atherosclerosis in the lower half of your body, people who might talk, listen to music or nibble on snacks while driving are selfish people who risk everyone else’s lives. Then she chastised me because, I posted that I like taking my hearing aids out, or muting the microphone while driving so I can blast music using Bluetooth without listening to traffic on the freeway just to give her a push. She asked if I was expecting a reward for my bad behavior and I asked her what bad behavior?Then explained people can drive if they’re stone deaf legally, no special test, licensing or even telling DMV or your insurance company you’re deaf. She disappeared and so when I saw this yesterday I thought, “Here we go again”

:roll_eyes::joy::joy::wink::cowboy_hat_face:


(Keto Koala 🐨) #115

Well I would die without my morning coffee so whatevs :coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:


#116

Sedentary addicts always want to hear good things about their bad habits.

What you guys are promoting is artificial ketosis with stimulants. Not real ketosis.


#118

“My ketosis is better than yours!”

This thought popped into my head. I saw soooo many times that some people said odd things as the real way. Deep ketosis, ketosis where we eat very simple (sometimes it reminds me to whole30 or something where even something resembling some not ideal food is bad), ketosis under a certain low carb intake, very long term ketosis… To me, ketosis is ketosis, I am in it or not but I don’t even care, I just want to feel and function right.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #119

Yeah, I can’t stand egomaniacs either Shinita. Who needs that? Especially while spreading stupid untruths around the forum. :cowboy_hat_face:


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #120

So we’ve finally descended into Ketosis Shaming™ Nice work @anon81060937. :innocent:


(bulkbiker) #121

Yeah that fake ketosis that my blood has been registering for the past 4 years you mean?


(Edith) #122

Y’all can correct me if I’m wrong:

I thought that we secrete insulin when we eat, but it’s what we eat that determines the amount of insulin secreted.

Once we eat, we stop metabolizing our own fat and process the food we’ve eaten. Once that food is processed, we go back into ketosis. Which is why we want to cut back on snacking and have many hours between meals.

The fact that you can still measure blood ketones after eating could still be residual from before the meal?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #123

@VirginiaEdie My understanding is somewhat similar, except. Ketosis does not stop just because we eat something and insulin rises. The degree of insulin rise determines whether or not ketosis stops. There is always some base line amounts of glucose and insulin. Ketosis only stops if glucose/insulin rise past our personal ‘trigger point’, but if they stay below that, then no. Eating more than incidental carbs will generally spike glucose/insulin above the ‘trigger point’. Eating fats and proteins will not. In ketosis both insulin and glucagon balance with each other to continue keeping fat from adipose available.

This video by Butter Bob is instructive and not very technical: