Can you be Keto and get really fat?

(Jack Bennett) #83

This might be relevant to the question:

(PJ) #84

Thanks Shinita, I see where your reference came from now, valid point.


No way you didn’t lose fat (and some muscles) on 600 kcal with exercise (or without, actually). 2 weeks are short, it’s impossible to say what exactly happened but water retention surely had some role. Still highly interesting but human body is like that, your case is more extreme than normal though! Wow.

(Prancing Pony) #86

Of course it is possible :rofl: otherwise our ancestors would have starved


(bulkbiker) #88

I think Michael was referring to your incorrect statement

Autophagy may indeed cease (although as we have no way of measuring it even that maybe up for debate) but ketosis certainly doesn’t.

(GINA ) #89

@Shinita, you sure seem invested in explaining to people why what they have experienced in and with their own bodies can’t possibly be so.

I knew when I posted about gaining 2 lbs if I forget my thyroid medication that someone would step up to tell me it is impossible. I know because it happens every time I mention it in a weight loss community like this.

I think it is because of fear. It is hard to make the changes necessary to lose weight. It is a huge investment to change habits, social patterns, family dynamics, etc, to be successful. If you do all that and manage to lose weight it is a hard-won victory and you feel in control. If some random lady on the internet says she can gain 2 lbs by forgetting a medication (or another says she ate 600 calories per day and exercised and didn’t lose weight), then that calls into question how much control any of us really have. The hard-won victory of weight loss could be snatched away in some unfair way by a body not playing by the rules. So those random internet ladies must be lying. It is easier that way.

(Prancing Pony) #90

Well put!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #91

Am I going to believe my own lying eyes? :heart_eyes:


No, others problems has about zero to do with my own hardships. I am aware many people has it way harder than me and I am very thankful I only can blame myself, not my genetics or illnesses. And I don’t know what would I fear, honestly. Fear isn’t hedonistic, I almost never do that and never regarding my weight.

I am typically very open-minded (surely not the same extent regarding everything) and see very interesting things so I extremely rare say something is impossible. But no matter what, the human body CAN’T make fat tissue without energy. It just can’t, it’s very basic, I can surely tell this much, I don’t need to be even an expert and no matter what scientists will find, not that, it’s quite certain. If we can trust something, that’s nature laws and similar pretty fixed things. There is so few of them, we see that when we look at people’s stories… I am truly thankful I am quite simple compared to many. I eat little, I lose fat, no matter what. (I can’t eat little but that’s another story. I don’t think I have hard-won victories at fat-loss. Or I don’t consider those long, fun times when I lose absolutely nothing particularly hard. Whenever I actually lose fat, it’s very easy, enjoyable and I am very satiated and satisfied all the time, I love that. I can’t lose fat any other way. It makes it hard, I guess, as I almost automatically overeat or in the best cases, eat just at maintenance.)

(GINA ) #93

Well, I hope things stay that way for you.

I could have written the same post 20 years ago, before thyroid problems and perimenopause closed in on me. That is when I learned that hormones have ultimate control over us.

(GINA ) #94



So… You eat multiple meals a day and don’t ingest caffeine, supplements, etc… that stimulate lipolysis?

(Bunny) #96

That is interesting piece on cortisol (stimulates glucose production) and GH having the opposite effect.

I know from other research that GH is blocked by excessive circulating glucose which inhibits the hypothalamus from producing DHEA which tends to decline with age. When a person goes keto DHEA goes on the incline.

Cortisol is a stress hormone and has circadian type rhythm.

But here it says the opposite:

”…In conclusion, the present study unmistakably shows that cortisol in physiological concentrations is a potent stimulus of lipolysis and that this effect prevails equally in both femoral and abdominal adipose tissue. …” …More

WebMd explanation:

”…Your hypothalamus and pituitary gland – both located in your brain – can sense if your blood contains the right level of cortisol. If the level is too low, your brain adjusts the amount of hormones it makes. Your adrenal glands pick up on these signals. Then, they fine-tune the amount of cortisol they release. …” …More

I have an idea about this:

When a person goes on a ketogenic diet they probably cut out foods containing Phosphatidylserine which sensitizes the hormone receptors that regulates whole process of lipolysis (fat burning) that regulate cortisol.

If true,


a/k/a: “I quit losing weight?” “I”m getting fatter on keto” “I’m stalling” “I’ve been stalled for weeks months?”


Well, seems the top 3 sources of phosphatidylserine are cow brains, soy lecithin, and lamb’s kidneys - which I don’t eat. However, lecithin converts into some phosphatidylserine… lecithin from egg yolks, chicken legs, and beef liver - but nowhere near the doses found in those previously mentioned top sources.

So, obese and morbidly obese people on keto could really benefits from eating grassfed lamb kidneys and cow brains. :thinking:

Associating these foods with lipolysis might help folks who can afford to buy it from online farmers, then there’s the learning to cook it (or to sneak it into things raw…)


I’m not a fan of Frankenstein science where they inject a subject with a molecule and then jump to conclusions. The cortisol stimulation of lipolysis is temporary and part of the fight or flight response.

As for Phosphatidylserine(a phospholipid):

(Bunny) #99

I do wonder if there is enough in it in the foods we eat?

I am very suspicious that it is in other foods too but no research to really say where?

Oh yes almost forgot phosphatidylserine is high in soy beans.


Bunny, I am asking this with nothing but respect, but I would really love to know what and how you eat in a day. Your posts are filled with science of everything we should be taking into consideration and I’m really wondering how you get all these factors into your diet and in proper quantities. There must be some serious calculations going on…

(Bunny) #101

Seriously I’m going read all of this and have a deeper look… Thank you for the citations!

Frankenstein science on rabbits is better…lol

Fasting enriches liver triacylglycerol with n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids: implications for understanding the adipose–liver axis in serum docosahexaenoic acid regulation: “…Connor and colleagues maximally induced lipolysis in rabbits by injecting adrenocorticotropic hormone after an overnight fast and then calculated the relative mobilization of individual fatty acid species as a ratio of the percent abundance in plasma NEFA relative to the percent in adipose tissue TAG plus free fatty acid fractions combined. …” …More

(Bunny) #102

Bacon, eggs, avocado when I’m lazy, all kinds of veggies and varieties protein sometimes raw, fish, pork, beef, shrimp, crab, caviar, roe, sea weed lobster, organ and muscle meats, it’s an endless list unless experimenting with processed carbs.

Other stuff like resistant starch, experimental carbon 60 olive oil (makes my nails and hair grow wicked fast) …I cannot possibly list everything including exotic supplements like soil based probiotics, pine tree bark, grape seed extract, wheat grass powder, nutritional yeast, brewers yeast, ACV, lemon juice etc. but those are some.

I take very little of any supplement so they are not something I take everyday.

My N=1s are very specific to me so it could be placebo or paradox and would skew another persons efforts so I try not to post much about it.

Oh yes forgot chicken, bison and various fruits. Love chicken.

Sometimes wild piggy and other exotic animals. We have a store that specializes in exotic meats from all over the world like crocodile, duck, tongue, chicken feet, baby lamb hearts, different types of bulk animal fats that are not hydrogenated etc. around the corner from my house all grass fed meats no anti-biotics or hormones. I usually get organ meats for free but I have to drive way out to get them.