Balancing Fat Intake with Muscle loss

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

A half-kilo piece of steak would give you 125 g of protein.

(Vladaar Malane) #13

Well had to eat 2056 calories to get a mere 138 grams of protein which might be equal to my lean mass.

But my calories limit for losing weight was 1500. So not sure how this will work eating all meat for 1500 calories won’t get me enough protein

#14

Eat leaner proteins. Instead of 5 whole eggs have 3 whole with 2 whites, eat skinless chicken breast in place of sausage, use high protein/low fat cottage cheese etc… If you’re cutting fat you can add a few more carbs which can help make the leaner proteins more interesting/palatable. If you’re eating keto for medical reasons this probably won’t work but if you’re just trying to lean out it works great.

Help My Macros
(Vladaar Malane) #15

Interesting enough, going over 2000 calories to try to get the protein level, I lost weight the next day. I expected to stay the same or maybe gain a pound.

The body is so complex. Literally had to stay at 1500 calories to lose for weeks. Not sure if staying at 2000 with higher protein would have me still losing…

Whatever, as long as still moving in right direction and more than willing to eat more if body likes it. LoL.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

There are plenty of documented cases of this happening. This is why we recommend eating to satiety and not to a calorie target. Just as the metabolism can slow down for inadequate calorie intake, so too can it speed up when given more calories, if you eat the right foods.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

Beginner needs help
(Bob M) #18

Protein is interesting.

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(Vladaar Malane) #19

LoL, wild my mind will explode with too much information. Read Dr. Fung’s book and followed much of this over the years, it’s just amazing the more I think I know, the more I don’t.

(Bob M) #20

I’m 100% with you, there. How much fat and of what type should I eat? Should I take vitamins/minerals? If so, which ones, how much, and when? Eat lower fat/higher protein or higher fat/lower protein? How many grams carbs can I really eat? How many grans of carbs should I eat? Should I cycle carbs?

As of 1/1/21, it’ll be 7 years for me, and while I have better ideas on a lot of those, I’m still unsure on many of them.

#21

It’s likely that the weight you lost was the result of the previous week or twos eating rather than what you ate the day before. Perhaps the higher calorie intake dropped your cortisol level some - the old whoosh effect.

This much is certainly true and each individual has to find what works for them. Will watch this thread with interest.

(Ivy) #22

I feel like this forum could use an updating of the protein aspect of starting keto to include this evidently useful post.

(Ivy) #23

yes, interesting. philosophy of protein with ketonians

#24

Problem is many here (and keto in general) still subscribe to the “protein turns to cupcakes” mentality which is completely busted at this point, and don’t care if they loose muscle as long as the scale goes down. Keto sadly has as many dogmatic views as mainstream medicine like “more salt is the answer to everything”, “more fat is the answer to everything” type of stuff.

Sometimes you just get sucked in, in my 20’s I was a very in shape muscular dude, I knew better, and STILL fell for that crap. I believed the calories didn’t matter (and never lost fat past a certain point), stalled for about a year (hello definition of insanity!), started being a fasting guy (slowed my RMR), and lost a ton of muscle. Triple lose for me! Luckily I’m more or less “fixed” at this point but what a damn ride!

I feel there’s the medical I need to fix something way of doing keto, the quick fat loss way, and then the I want to be in shape / muscular way. This forum has a lot more fat loss / medical repair I think than the I’m in the gym everyday types.

I do Cyclical/Targeted Keto now, which has pushed my gym performance way the hell up vs standard keto, but for somebody that sedentary and only concerned with fat loss it definitely wouldn’t work well for them, probably make them gain more fat.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #25

@IvyKCKO @lfod14

Check out the Bikman talk I linked here above. Balancing Fat Intake with Muscle loss.

Also check out the Eades talk I linked here: Fat burns in a Carbohydrate Flame - Yes, But... So Much More In Other Ways

(Ivy) #26

Right. This means by balance is [1.5kg per kg/bodyweight Correct me if Im wrong] 88 gr protein as my lowest intake, and 130-150 [169 is ammonia toxicity; 130 is my weight–to guide–and 108 is the higher end for 1.75 According to the between 1.5 and 1.75 grams of protein per kg of ‘reference body weight’] is my highest intake? I can play that way? I mean Im sticking to 88, but your reflection is expressing what, exactly about my protein?

Im getting that your just emphasizing I can travel betwixt 88 - 108 gr protein, nothing more. Correct me if Im wrong

#27

The go-to is 1g/lb bodyweight to maintain/gain, and more if you’re really trying to add muscle mass (or) trying to not loose what you have while doing tons of things that burn it off like crazy amounts of cardio. When you’re obese it’s better to base it on actual muscle mass, but for most body weight is fine. The point where it becomes too much is also dependent on you and what you’re doing. In my case, I’m doing a 2x day mass building program, so I have it decently past my body weight at this point, long before you ever hit toxic levels, you’d know it when your sweat started smelling like Windex, plus you typically wind up feeling like crap when that happens, basically the “meat sweats” feeling.

(Ivy) #28

Wow this got messy. I guessed right.

#29

My lean bodyweight is around 120lbs (I am short and not particularly muscular though I do what I can, I do lift :wink: and I eat well for gaining muscle). I am quite fine around 150g protein now, I doubt I would get problems with 200g but I never tried and I am aware it’s very individual. There are short women eating way more protein than me without problems… While some must stay lower, yes.

You won’t know if you don’t try. No one can tell you what is too much protein for you. There are some statistics but they can’t include the individual factor, obviously.

Most of us simply can’t eat too much protein. I noticed that even when I eat twice as much as my energy need, my protein isn’t super high. I go over 200g regularly, sure but only occasionally. Never caused a problem. I eat over 2g/kg for LBM since many years (average, not each and every day though close but I have my 3-4g/kg days) and it’s fine for me and as I wrote, some short women go higher. Carnivores often eat high protein even if they use fatty meat…

I have read back, oh my, how someone can’t eat enough protein (without a very high need) at 1500 kcal? I eat mostly fatty protein but I never have problems even on lowish-carb days (I still eat high protein, not adequate then, my needs aren’t so high though). I could go over 200g with 1500 kcal but that’s a leaner pork. Pork chuck or eggs are almost lean enough for the mentioned amount of protein in 1500 kcal, just a tad leaner stuff and voila. Very lean meat has 280g protein for 1500 kcal, it’s so not needed for only 138…

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #30

As long as you’re also eating lots of fat, you have to try very hard to eat too much protein. Could you do it? Sure. Would you? Realistically - probably not. In the real world, too much protein only becomes an issue in combo with too little fat. Or too many carbs. I base my macros on protein - but my fat macro is 2x protein grams and 4.5 protein calories. At those ratios I’m not likely ever to eat ‘too much’ protein.

(Ivy) #31

So low protein isnt really worth it if lower than bodyweight, which is going to build lean body mass, and needs to be going along with high fat (not sure how much though) for active individuals