Balancing Fat Intake with Muscle loss

(Vladaar Malane) #1

So I got to thinking, after talking to another Ketoer… He feels like he lost some muscle by staying too high in fat as he has successfully now got a flat stomach.

Thus I’m 5’9 at 185 pounds at the moment. With probably 20 pounds tire around the waist. I mainly want to lose the tire but typically you can’t control where the fat is lost.

I am thinking now is the point I should reduce fat intake, and increase my protein while staying in 500 calorie deficit.
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Says at my age/height that I should probably be doing around 150 to 180 grams of protein a day. That’s a ton of meat at the calories I’m set too. LoL. If I kept my fat percentage intake high or close to where it was I would go over in calories trying to get the right amount of protein to not lose muscle as I lose weight.

I’m gonna give it a go, hopefully I don’t get crushed by hunger pains, from the change in fat intake, or lose a ton of energy when I work out.

Anyone got experience with this scenario?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Was he too high in fat, or too low in protein? It’s hard to determine these things in isolation, alas!

(Vladaar Malane) #3

Yeah I don’t know, he said too low in protein.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

Let us know what happens. Based on other discussions, I don’t think you need to maintain a 500 calorie deficit to replace fat with muscle. You could simply replace fat (calorie to calorie) with protein (which does not have to be only meat!) up to 180 grams of protein, or thereabouts.

(Vladaar Malane) #5

Yeah, I will. It’s mainly about staying focused to the finish line. I am bombarded with family, friends, co-workers trying to give me candy bars, snacks, goodies it seems. I have been giving them all to my kids. But it hard to stay focused on goals. Always feel that pull in back on your mind. You worked hard, treat yourself this one time. LoL. My daughter bought me a pint of black cherry icecream and asked me why I haven’t had any. LoL.

It’s a conspiracy to get you to fall back into your old ways, I tell yah. I’m gonna try to be like Rocky with eye of the Tiger to finish this last 20 pounds. Do I know that 20 pounds is all I need? Nope, if I don’t lose mainly fat then I might have to go closer to 30 pounds.

Anyway, that is my plan.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

A certain amount of protein is necessary every day, in order to maintain muscle mass, among other things. The average requirement is 0.6 g protein/kg lean mass/day, but I once saw the graph of the data from which that average was derived, and there was an enormous amount of individual variation. There seems to be an unavoidable minimum nitrogen loss, simply from living.

As for maintaining muscle mass, or even increasing it, this requires protein. For building new muscle, branched-chain amino acids are required, particularly the three essential BCAA’s, leucine, iso-leucine, and valine. (The body can manufacture the other BCAA’s it needs for tissue-building.)

I wouldn’t think that skimping on fat would even be relevant here, since the characteristic difference between an amino acid and a fatty acid is that the former contains nitrogen and the latter lacks it. That’s why fats and sugars can be easily interconverted, but amino acids need to be deaminated before they can be converted into anything but another amino acid. Under normal circumstances, and apart from the unavoidable loss to deamination, amino acids are used for structural purposes and fatty acids (including ketones) and glucose are used for metabolic purposes.

(Bob M) #7

It’s ice cream with fruit in it? :wink: Seriously, who adds fruit to ice cream (or chocolate)?

Protein is almost always something considered good and even “fat burning”, unless you’re a vegan.

(Vladaar Malane) #8

icecream is a gateway to excessive weight gaining for me if I start to indulge especially in the summer.

In fact, I’m not too good at fat bombs, dark chocolate snacks, etc. Seems like I just eat them too frequently or having them increases my desire to snack on other things. So I try to just refrain all together if I can.

(Bob M) #9

That’s a good plan.

#10

I was low in protein back in the being afraid of GNG days, and I ABSOLUTELY lost a lot of muscle thanks to it. Given that we need fat to run correctly from a hormone standpoint I don’t think being to high would have a negative impact on muscle, but I learned I was eating too much of if to actually loose bodyfat. Pretty much have it down to around 75g/day max if I want any chance of loosing fat. If I don’t meet my protein goals I keep eating. Don’t care how much fat I get in (on the low side) and attempt not to go over on calories but I gotta get that protein in. Make sure your getting in enough go build assuming that’s the goal and not just a maintenance level. I do 1g/lb bodyweight at absolute minimum, when I’m doing really intense programs like I am now at the gym 2x day I’m a 1.5g. It’s a lot and sometimes tiring to get it in, but the results say it’s working! Plus a huge difference in recovery speed.

(Vladaar Malane) #11

Not easy increasing protein intake when so used to high fat. Only managed 89 grams today from 5 eggs, 5 slices deli turkey, and smoked sausage.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

A half-kilo piece of steak would give you 125 g of protein.

(Vladaar Malane) #13

Well had to eat 2056 calories to get a mere 138 grams of protein which might be equal to my lean mass.

But my calories limit for losing weight was 1500. So not sure how this will work eating all meat for 1500 calories won’t get me enough protein

#14

Eat leaner proteins. Instead of 5 whole eggs have 3 whole with 2 whites, eat skinless chicken breast in place of sausage, use high protein/low fat cottage cheese etc… If you’re cutting fat you can add a few more carbs which can help make the leaner proteins more interesting/palatable. If you’re eating keto for medical reasons this probably won’t work but if you’re just trying to lean out it works great.

Help My Macros
(Vladaar Malane) #15

Interesting enough, going over 2000 calories to try to get the protein level, I lost weight the next day. I expected to stay the same or maybe gain a pound.

The body is so complex. Literally had to stay at 1500 calories to lose for weeks. Not sure if staying at 2000 with higher protein would have me still losing…

Whatever, as long as still moving in right direction and more than willing to eat more if body likes it. LoL.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

There are plenty of documented cases of this happening. This is why we recommend eating to satiety and not to a calorie target. Just as the metabolism can slow down for inadequate calorie intake, so too can it speed up when given more calories, if you eat the right foods.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

Beginner needs help
(Bob M) #18

Protein is interesting.

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(Vladaar Malane) #19

LoL, wild my mind will explode with too much information. Read Dr. Fung’s book and followed much of this over the years, it’s just amazing the more I think I know, the more I don’t.

(Bob M) #20

I’m 100% with you, there. How much fat and of what type should I eat? Should I take vitamins/minerals? If so, which ones, how much, and when? Eat lower fat/higher protein or higher fat/lower protein? How many grams carbs can I really eat? How many grans of carbs should I eat? Should I cycle carbs?

As of 1/1/21, it’ll be 7 years for me, and while I have better ideas on a lot of those, I’m still unsure on many of them.