Are these normal ketone level fluctuations?

#1

I regularly track my ketones and blood sugar levels throughout the day. Usually once in the morning and then a few hours after lunch.

This morning I drink a protein shake and 2 hours later my blood sugar/Ketone level was 89/.1 Ketone (8:30am)

Around 10:30am I ate about 23 ounces of ground turkey, which had sliced bell peppers, cheese, etc mixed in, but I didn’t check my levels right away because I figured it would report back as low.

Just now 1:30pm so 3 hours after eating that 1200+ Calorie meal, my blood sugar is 83 and my ketone level is at 1.0.

This is my 7th week of clean keto so I’m wondering is this something regular that happens to a lot of people? Also, what would be the indications that I’m fat adapted?

(Allie) #2

Levels are up and down all the time, that’s normal.

(Karim Wassef) #3

Here’s my first thread here…

My experience is that there are three things that drive ketones:

  1. Food
  2. Activity
  3. History

The one that confounded me the most is history. Your body is actively trying to predict what you will need.

So if you usually exercise fasted at a certain time, it’ll push ketones up at that same time to “prep” you for it.

If you usually eat at a certain time, it’ll temporarily drop ketone production from your own fat to “wait” for fat from food.

(Jody) #4

Someone smarter than me please correct me if I’m wrong… at some point when you are fat adapted, your ketone levels you test in your meter don’t mean much. If you are producing 10 and using 9 for fuel, then you have 1 left in your blood which shows up on the meter. You are still fueling w/ketones. Early on, testing confirms that you are actually in ketosis, but long term, the meter can’t tell you how much your body is actually creating AND using.

Did I get that right? I heard Richard explain it on a older podcast, I’m working through them now.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #5

I didn’t even have to read the post to be able to tell you that there are normal.

It’s also here where I point out the superiority of breath testing to blood testing, particularly for the “fat adapted” or longer term (like 6 weeks) ketonaut.

It’s also here where I point out that ketones are rarely the goal, and that the tendency to obsessive checking and tracking leads to more cortisol, which will be a problem for the ketogenic dieter’s progress.

(Karim Wassef) #6

it depends on what ketone test you mean … blood, breath, urine?

breath and urine don’t mean much after a while. Blood ketones remain meaningful, especially as you collect data and look at the trend

#7

I started adhering to a LC diet and fasting regime a couple of years ago. I maintain a fairly deep state of ketosis most of the time. I measure BG and BK daily and track them with an app called Glucosio. While I may have wide fluctuations due to variables (both known and indeterminate) my GKI has remained a reliable metric and the best indicator of my metabolic state. BG (and to a lesser extent BK) are the best tools for determining the effect that various foods have on my body.

I’m not a scientist. I’m only one data point, but let me be empirically clear. Given the same inputs (ie. food consumption, activity level, sleep, stress) my ketone levels can be just as high now as they were the first week I started. In analyzing my 700+ entries over the past two years, I have found no difference that I would attribute to “fat adaptation”.

#8

Blood. I use keto mojo

(Karim Wassef) #9

Blood ketones continue to be an important metabolic measure … like blood glucose

(Jody) #10

Karim, why are they are worth measuring? They are not telling you how much your body is producing or using, so really, what is it telling you other than confirming you are burning fat? Should we be seeing an increase over time? Is that that goal?

(Jody) #11

Nevermind, I see that it’s being used to calculate a GKI. I’ve never heard that, I need to go google it.

(Jody) #12

So the calculation for GKI is new, I’ve never heard that before. I’ll have to go back and see what my #'s look like. Love to learn something new, thanks!!

(Karim Wassef) #13

Your ketones are like glucose. The reading tells you what your body is “prepping” to use.

You actually use five sources of energy
Glucose
Glycogen that your body converts to glucose
Creatine (super short power bursts)
Fatty acids
Ketones

They’re basically like batteries that your body charges up to certain levels in anticipation of what you will actually need. Watching those “charging” levels can tell you a lot about your metabolic and hormonal state.

For example, my lowest glucose reading was 33. That would usually cause a coma but I was fine… I was actually going to go weightlifting too… and it was good.

That basically told me that most of my body was fat adapted because my liver was comfortable allowing my glucose to go that low. Only red blood cells, some brain cells and the inner part of the kidneys actually need glucose because they lack mitochondria. You need mitochondria to use fatty acids and ketones.

When my ketones got 9.5 (long fast this March), it was a couple of years into keto… and it showed me that my body was heavily dependent on ketones - it needed a lot of them “ready to go”.

There is a lot more that these levels indicate. When the body turns fat into fatty acids, it releases the glycerol backbone of that molecule to make glucose. The fatty acids get used up and the excess gets converted into ketones to “charge your battery up”.

Also, high ketones in the blood (at least for me) gives me more mental clarity and focus.

High ketones are also protective to lean muscle loss that happens with other diets.

Just a lot that it tells you

Here’s my thread with lots on GKI and ketones

I’m still learning too :slight_smile:

#14

I pretty much ate the same meals today as yesterday, with the exception of eating lunch about an hour or so earlier. I will be checking to see if my ketone/glucose levels are similar to what they were yesterday around 1:30.

#15

Update so I did a little experiment. I ate 95% of the same foods today as I did yesterday, with the exception of eating lunch almost 2 hours earlier today

8am: Tested Ketone and it was LO (aka too low to read)
1:30pm: Tested Ketones and it was 1.1. My glucose was 85

Tomorrow I think I will test at the same times, but instead of drinking my protein shake in the morning, I will eat a replica of my lunch, which is ground turkey, cheese, and peppers.

Then I plan on fasting until friday and I will test throughout.

(Karim Wassef) #16

Keep in mind that the experiments are always influenced by history. Our bodies remember and change/adapt their response- even to the same stimuli.

(Jody) #17

Karim, thank you so much for this! I have a lot to read. And learn. :smile: I was going to toss my ketone meter out, but now I’m thinking I’ll order some more testing strips. I’ve been pretty focused on my blood glucose. I would be interested to see how I progress given my broken system w/T2D.

I can’t believe you hit 33 BG! I had gestational diabetes when I was pregnant with my oldest, I was late in my pregnancy and accidently gave myself short acting insulin instead of the long acting one. I experienced one of the scariest moments of my life, my blood glucose was 40. I thought I was going to die.

#18

Tested today at 1:38pm and my blood sugar was 85 and my Ketone level 1.0.
GKI Index=4.72

I had a relatively large meal for breakfast and lunch, because I intend to fast until Friday afternoon or possibly even Saturday morning. I have some exogenous Ketone cherry limeade powder that I’ll be consuming during the fast since I’ll be hitting the gym.

Today I consumed 229g of protein, 16 net carbs and 231g (3120 total calories) of fat as a prep for my 2(possibly 3) day fast. I did not want to go into the fast already hungry.

(Karim Wassef) #19

Yikes! 229g of protein before fasting might make your fast harder.

Also, I’m personally not a fan of exogenous ketones. It really masks what we’re trying to measure with GKI which is the insulin to glucagon ratio. It also reduces your own ketone production.

#20

I think you missed the 231g of fat I consumed as well.

Also I’m 6’1, 290 with a muscular frame. I lift 5-6 days A week so I need my protein. My usual day’s goal of protein is 220g and that’s using the average range of studies that shows how much protein an active person typically can consume that will show positive results, relative to their body weight. I aim for about .76g protein per lb of body weight, but lately have been averaging 190-210g

• Tarnopolsky et al. (1992) observed no differences in whole body protein synthesis or indexes of lean body mass in strength athletes consuming either 0.64g/lb or 1.10g/lb over a 2 week period. Protein oxidation did increase in the high protein group, indicating a nutrient overload.
• Walberg et al. (1988) found that 0.73g/lb was sufficient to maintain positive nitrogen balance in cutting weightlifters over a 7 day time period.
• Tarnopolsky et al. (1988) found that only 0.37g/lb was required to maintain positive nitrogen balance in elite bodybuilders (over 5 years of experience, possible previous use of androgens) over a 10 day period. 0.45g/lb was sufficient to maintain lean body mass in bodybuilders over a 2 week period. The authors suggested that 0.55g/lb was sufficient for bodybuilders.
• Lemon et al. (1992) found no differences in muscle mass or strength gains in novice bodybuilders consuming either 0.61g/lb or 1.19g/lb over a 4 week period. Based on nitrogen balance data, the authors recommended 0.75g/lb.
• Hoffman et al. (2006) found no differences in body composition, strength or resting hormonal concentrations in strength athletes consuming either 0.77g/lb or >0.91g/lb over a 3 month period.

Over 20 other studies have consistently failed to find any benefits of more than 1.6g/kg/d of protein. See e.g. here and here. The Bayesian Research team has also performed its own scientific study in collaboration with the University of Cambridge to research if higher protein intakes benefit recovery in the days after a hard workout. It didn’t.