APRIL 2019 IF/EF Chat ALL WELCOME

#181

Oh, I wish it was that here for me. I’m just getting in to the office to start the day, so won’t get back home for nearly 10 hours from now. :neutral_face: … Enjoy your outing.

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #182

Oh noooo! Poor Dave… you can do it :muscle:

Thank you. Will be hard to resist my usual glass of rosé… my one friend is a bit pushy and always throws a round for everyone. :sweat_smile: I shouldn’t complain though she means well

(Virginia ) #183

Good to hear, glad things are going well for you. :slight_smile:

That’s good. :slight_smile: I take Apple Cider Vinegar pills, Magnesium, Calcium a few times a week, Vitamin D3 5000 units (which my family doctor has me taking because mine was low, but now only have to take it a few times a week and Folbic Acid table (which is prescribe by my Hematologist because blood thinners weakens the immune system and the Folbic Acid helps build up the immune system, it also has Vitamin B6 and B12 in it).

I’m hoping too. :slight_smile:

Thank You. :slight_smile:

Thank you. :slight_smile:

#184

I don’t know how many hours it’s been since I didn’t pay attention to the time I last ate, but I’ve fasted since last Sunday so this is my fifth day. Sometime this afternoon will make 120 hours.

It’s going ok so far, I’m kinda hungry this morning but I’m pushing through. The first couple days I was ravenous all the time. Now I’ve got that “cleaned-out”, light feeling and it feels pretty good. I’d like to go a week. We’ll see.

I fat fasted for 6 days before I got fully on board with the water fast, averaged 300 cals/day, and in the last 11 days I’ve lost 4.8 pounds. That doesn’t feel like very much. Somebody tell me that’s a decent amount? Somebody else mentioned they’d lost 14lbs in 120 hours. I try to tell myself I didn’t have any water weight to lose and that it’s all fat loss.

Whatever, I’m rambling at this point. Happy fasting everybody!

(Tamela Robinette) #185

I believe Megan Ramos said a person should expect to lose 1/2 pound a day so considering you were consuming the 300 calories a day for 6 days of your fast I’d say this is awesome!

(Tamela Robinette) #186

Feeling a little wonky myself at 37 hours so I’m having a little bone broth with some Himalayan salt to try and push through. It’s dark and rainy here today, my foot is still hurting and I haven’t been able to run (my drug of choice) all week which is probably contributing to my feelings of “meh.” I also feel a general feeling of weakness which I take as my body telling me I need some sound nutrition. Therefore, I have some meals planned out for today to give it just that (once I break my fast.) Planning out the weekend as well and really looking forward to some feasting.

#187

Yeah I guess it does work out to about 1/2 lb a day. I don’t know why I’m complaining…:grinning:

(Tamela Robinette) #188

https://fastinglane.com/ten-day-fast
This is where I got that info from. Really great series of videos that helped me with fasting. Megan coaches a lady named Eve through a 10 day fast.

#189

Thanks for that. Going to check it out now.

(Herb Martin) #190

Keep rambling and Happy Fasting to you - and everyone else.

About all the FAT, LONG TERM you can expect to lose is 3 1/2 lbs per week, 1/2 lb per day. This is for steady losing, you can lose gallons (8 lbs each) of WATER in a single day under extreme conditions of sweating with heat and exercise.

So it’s hard to tell at the front end of a fast how much is fat and how much is water. Take what you get and build from there.

4.8 lbs in 11 days is certainly a decent amount – the important thing is the process, and the scale, etc. is just the “Game Scoreboard”, interesting, motivating, technically not important day-to-day and only important long term or as it represents fat loss, muscle building, and health gains either losing or gaining weight

(Most of us don’t want to gain but adding some muscle while losing weight is important for most of us too.)

Sharon, we are close together (Hi buddy!)

I’m at 4 1/2 days now with full 5 days at around 8 pm tonight which would be 120 hours a little after you.

I don’t usually track anything but full days either except to share with your folks on the forum(s) or for my wife who exited her first fast yesterday at 89 hours or so.

This was supposed to be a water fast but I’ve been playing with a little bit of fat too – not through hunger, but to see if I could do as well (or nearly as so) as just water.

Drank a lot of extra water (made a BIG MCT shake late yesterday) so technically gained a lb since yesterday, but I am still down 10 lbs at 4 1/2 days so that doesn’t matter really.

(Just not as much FUN as seeing the scale free-fall. :slight_smile: )

GKI went down SLIGHTLY to 1.65 due to a drop in glucose with a slight drop in ketones. (Is ketones don’t keep rising will need to stop the fat experimenting.)

The plan is to get GKI down well under 1.0 like last fast and go maybe 10-14 days – or longer if the fat experiment makes it more pleasant.

Sub-1.0 is supposedly DEEP AUTOPHAGY. *

It was 5-6 days before I broke through that 1.0 GKI barrier last fast (First one I had a meter) 8 days before I started having Ketones in the 6+ and 7+ range. (7.1 was highest)

The main goal for me currently is FAT-weight loss then basal insulin reset, and after that autophagy with general health improvement & cellular clean up.

My clothes are very baggy with a total weight loss of 70 lbs as of today, since a year ago Thanksgiving.

NOT a BIT hungry or otherwise ‘off’ this morning so this is a good way to roll if the numbers stay good and more importantly the FAT keeps falling away.

This is 32 days fasting of the last 48 I believe. Exactly 2/3rds.

Right now I’m good to go for a 7 day fast, 10-14 days seems very reasonable again; & after that, we’ll see…

I AM HAPPY & hope you good folks are too.

Happy Fasting To YOU

++ :smile: ++ :smile: ++ :smile: ++ :smile: ++ :smile: ++

(Mame) #191

Thanks! I drink a version of ‘keto-aid’ morning and evening and suck on salt crystals as needed.

Although I sometimes get a GKI < 1 when I fast I have never measured this low. I did change the time I measure this month so that might be the difference. Only been tracking GKI since December. I am not T2D so I don’t have to deal with high BG numbers.

However I am extremely insulin resistant and I don’t seem to lose weight unless my GKI < 2.5. When I am in the GKI 3-9 range nothing changes on the scale or with clothing fit. However I assume I am still healing metabolically.

Does anyone else have this going on? low BG, high keytones, GKI < 6 and no weight loss. I can’t be the only one.

#192

Congrats on your 70lb loss! I lost 49lbs last year but stumbled over the winter. Cold, gloomy weather puts me in hibernation (feasting) mode. I kick myself every time I wonder where I might be now if I’d stayed Keto.

Good luck with your fast, maybe we can challenge each other to keep going. My longest fast was a week, then one salad, then another week. This was last year before I understood about proper refeeding. Point being, there’s no reason I can’t go 14 days. I just have to want it bad enough! Come on Herb, we can do it!

(Herb Martin) #193

Ok, we can be “fasting buddies”.

To be clear, I will NOT “compete” or “push you” but I will encourage you to succeed and celebrate all of your successes.

It’s not just about wanting it badly enough, though you are correct that is an important part.

It’s about staying healthy and comfortable enough to keep it safe and fun too.

I got very bored last time at 14 days, and didn’t feel well the previous time when I did 12 days – both times I had a vague idea to go 28+ days, and this fast might be the one for that even.

At 5th day now, 7-10 seems pretty certain. The way I drop water weight, I can probably break 200 lbs if I go 10-14 so that provides some real incentive.

Today’s weight 212 1/2 (starting weight 282 1/2).

I’ll gain back though so if I only go 199-ish, then it probably won’t last – I’d need to hang in for 3-4 weeks probably to really make that permanent/maintainable.

It’s not beyond the real of possibility but I don’t set up these long term goals that way.

You can’t change the past, but you can begin to undo or to fix some of the things you wish were different now. We can only control the present, and make healthy plans for the future.

Let’s go buddy!!!

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #194

For those of you that are tracking GKI, this thread is about a podcast with Dr. Seyfried who invented the GKI for cancer treatment.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/therapeutic-ketosis-cancer-treatment-gki-and-dr-seyfried/83834

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #195

Checking in at 38 hours. Will break at dinner tonight. I have a massive headache, I think from the cupping. Just have to make it through about 6 more hours of work …

Happy Friday everyone!! :purple_heart:

#196

Yeah, I just need somebody to smack me upside the head when I start whining about being hungry.

28 days? Holy cow! I saw a guy on a pro anorexia site that did a 30 day fast and he wasn’t even overweight. He was practically skeletal by the end, but he did it. He posted a pic every day and you could see his face dropping the weight. If he can do 30 days then anyone can. But I’m not sure I recommend it. How close did you get to 28 days ? (Sorry if I missed where you said that)

(Windmill Tilter) #197

Is this brand new? I haven’t seen that on the IDM site yet. I’ve finally talked my Mom into joining the IDM clinic and I was looking through the diabetes course today to see how it was different from the weight loss course.

At any rate, in the lecture on extended fasting, Megan Ramos still lists the default option as one 72 hour fast each week. The next option listed is two 42-48hr fast each week. It still lists the option of a five day fast once per month and a 7 day fast no more than 4 times per year.

I’ve chatted with IDM educators as recently as two weeks ago and they were still recommending two 42hr-48hr or one 72hr fast each week as the default/recommended protocol. I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, I just haven’t been spending as much time there recently so I may have missed this update.

Here is the link to the current extended fasting protocols in the weight loss program (incidentally, it’s the same in the diabetes course). Apologies that this is behind the paywall for non-IDM members. :slightly_frowning_face:

https://idmprogram.com/courses/weight-loss-course/lessons/lessons-15-28-how-to-fast-effectively/topic/lesson-25-extended-fasting-protocols/

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #198

No, I suspect I had old info when they were recommending ADF or 2x48. Fung was reluctant for some time to recommend 48 hr fasts bc the 2nd day is sometimes perceived as the hardest day, but he’s moved past that. I’m glad he has, I find 48 hrs to be a bit of a sweet spot for me.

(Windmill Tilter) #199

Yup. I think that whole 200 page thread could be summarized as the following: If you’re going to do extended fasting on a cyclical basis continuously, it’s critical that you feast at least two days between fasts with a least 2 meals each day, and that the fasting days be well over TDEE (total daily energy expenditure). I think this is so critical that I track and weigh all the foods I eat to make sure my calories are high enough. That’s probably overboard, but I’ve been doing 3 days feasting and 3 days fasting continuously for 3 months, and I believe any errors I make undershooting my calorie targets have a cumulative toll on metabolic rate. It’s probably sufficient just to just aim a little past “satiety” towards, “full” and that would probably work just fine too as long as you’re eating 2 meals a day.

If your feasts are big enough in between fasts, it appears that it actually increases your metabolic rate. I call this the “metabolic ratchet effect”. The scary thing is that the same principles should work in reverse as well. If you try to pull off OMAD on your feast days for example and you wind up in a caloric deficit on your two feast days, this reduced metabolic rate is carried over into the fasted state, and persists all the way to the next feast. If you do that continuously for a month, you could put a serious hit on your resting metabolic rate.

This is an absurdly simplistic diagram of how I believe “metabolic ratcheting” works. Imagine that progression going down instead of up, and you get a pretty good idea why I think low calorie “feasts” between fasts is a very bad idea!

hi94LuJ.png719×456 7.82 KB

None of this is settled science by any stretch of the imagination. I’m still testing my resting metabolic rate daily on my new indirect calorimeter to see what effect continuous feast fast cycles have had on my RMR. So far, it looks like it has driven my RMR well above average. The intrepid @primal.peanut has been doing continuous feast/fast cycles for 5 months, and testing RMR daily for the last 2 months or so. His RMR is way above average.

#200

Hey @Don_Q this is only necessary for full day fasting, right? Just making sure. So if I only Do 20 hr fasting and Im eating a couple times within a 4 hour window, there’s no need for me to feast exceeding TDEE on any given day, correct? As long as I’m eating enough in those 4 hour windows? Just making sure i have that right. :blush: