APRIL 2019 IF/EF Chat ALL WELCOME

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #52

Heeey, we are in sync… XD
Preparing by loading up on b Vitamin rich foods has had a huge impact on my cravings, they are non existent.
Still feel sluggisch though… But I don’t even want food at all… hope on 60 maybe… one more day…

(Herb Martin) #53

In my limited experience (and quite a bit of reading and forums), nausea from the fast is not common so watch that closely.

Consider these:

  1. If you took medicine (or supplements) on an empty stomach that you usually take with food this can be hard for some people and that will definitely produce nausea in many cases. (high does B vitamins, B 100mg x ALL, and Omega/fish oil are worst for us in this regard.)

  2. Be careful of SALT only if you go a long fast or drop a lot of weight/water. Potassium is at least as important as Sodium salt on the longer runs, and many of the docs say that “keto flu” is really dehydration/electrolytes, sodium first.

So many people are accustomed to avoiding salt, it’s easy to overlook that with no food you are missing something on the order of 4 grams your body receives every day. Add big weight drops to this as the carbs unload and you can lose even more.

My ‘water fast’ is really an ‘electrolyte fast’ (no sugars etc if I use commercial or I just make my own) with plenty of Na, K, and Magnesium and other electrolytes.

daddyoh Eric, my wife had both knees replaced, and one should repaired almost replaced, and both my knees and hips are replacements. I was starting consider both shoulders for repair/replacement after several years of 3 x year steroid injections when the pain would return.

Then I started carnivore, most for the weight loss, and because Jordan Peterson looked 10 years younger than he had 4 years earlier after doing it about a year. Without any expectation, neither should has ever twinged again, and I am over 1 year out from the last steroid injections.

Told my shoulder surgeon (walking through the office with my wife for her post-op knee check) and the immediate response was: “Carnivore, that’s an anti-inflammatory diet.”

Still say they might have mentioned that BEFORE the 3 years of pain and injections.

Not sure if I can get up and down without hands (easily) but that’s mostly due to the weird feeling (no pain) of putting a numb knee on the ground. I can get up without bending either knee or touching either knee to the ground (basically a push-up, then pike to downward dog and up, but I could do that the post- op week of my bilateral replacement.)

Robinette71Tamela, at 60 hours you are cooking along (forgive the allusion please. :slight_smile: )

Your photo shows you as pretty trim but for people with a lot of fat like me (maybe 40 lbs left and maybe being male), weight really started dropping away between the 3-7th or later days.

It was almost scary fast the first time. 22 lbs or so in 12 days, then almost 30 lbs in 14 the next time. (I gained a lot back but the fat wasn’t there, the gains were mostly water, and I did end up with real weight loss as well.)

Right now I am down about 4 1/2 since 2 full days ago, and we’re only just past 1.5 days on this fast.

You are doing fantastic, so enjoy as long as you feel good and want to keep going.

[andesite] Way to go. Especially with the no coffee. What’s a keto-aid? (I’ll google.)

If you feel good, do go for the 4 days (:boom: 100 hours :boom:) as long as you are having fun.

As to weight, you just have to factor in water retention as not very important to true weight loss and only an issue for how you feel.

Our scale tries to show water composition (along with weight and fat percentage) but it isn’t very good at the water though I think it’s pretty good at %fat.

Chat away – when you have time with your busy schedule. We love to hear about both your successes and challenges.

Hardrock_keto_chick If you are feeling Ok, you can go as long as you choose.

FYI Folks: My wife is sleeping better than she has in weeks or months (I think, since she isn’t even up yet and went to sleep about 10-11 hours ago.)

I was up most of the night – one issue for me is that fasting brings on the energy so I sleep 4 hours and then never got back to sleep so she didn’t seem to notice when I went back to bed, and then left again. (But I am stealthy and quiet like a ninja and got the dogs out very early so they wouldn’t wake her up to potty.)

She’ll be at 38 hours even if she gets up now, so sleep is a doubly good thing for her.

I found some really good sites for AFIB that I need to check out today. Mine is under control but I’m still taking medicine and now I have a mild (Type 1) left bundle branch block so I want to get off more medicine (because it could well be the anti-arrhythmic drugs or the blood pressure meds causing the heart block, or it could just be low magnesium etc.)

Carol has dropped 3 serious meds as of now and has several targetted for reduction as soon as we are sure she’s stabilized without those others – and she take a LOT of different meds for a variety of significant chronic issues (5+).

I’ve dropped 3 (one still tentative), and I’m in the process of reducing the blood pressure meds as the weight disappears and my body heals.

Need to get my cardiologist to prescribe and EXA Test (magnesium and other minerals) – hard to figure out why she never did this or similar since she is quite good. (Probably saved my life in 2011 though a bit conventional probably.)

Happy Fasting and Good Health to everyone whether you fasting now or just lurking in preparation…

Stay safe out there folks.

#54

Hi, all i have been keto for 3 months , 5 weeks IF with 3-72 hr. EF. Im currently in hour 36 of my first 120 hr fast. (Hopefully). I’m really excited for this fast, i planned better all the previous were broken for social events. Which I’m ok with, but there is nothing on my calendar to break this one.
I have been naturally weaning myself off my coffee with a splash of cream and drop of stevia. I just dont want it anymore, i think i just carry it around in my travel mug for comfort.
I am so happy to have found this place for support and help. I read everyday on here, and several times a day during my EF. I love fasting, i was telling my husband that i think I’m addicted to it. It is so empowering to not eat and control myself to that extent. Especially because I’m a chef, and i have a large family i still have to cook for daily. I love it!!!
Anyway, thought i would finally say hello and thanks to all the expert advice i have read.
GO APRIL FASTERS!!!

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #55

hmmm, you motivate me to try and go further :heart_eyes: welcome!

#56

I know, right?? Everyone here has motivated me without even knowing it. I always hate day 2 then BOOM day 3 and i feel awesome, but sadly never made it past that only because of social gatherings. I just keep telling myself… im not in this to win anything, and its not a race. And i think its so important to enjoy life so i break my fast BUT am very proud to say have never cheated on keto. Only because i feel i may be weak and binge badly. So no cheating even on social gatherings.

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #57

Thanks! Here’s the link to Brenda Zorn’s Keto Aid.

(Jennifer) #58

More IF/TRE this week. I’m trying to fix my gut, so I’m going Carnivore for a couple weeks. Not sure yet if I’ll extend much beyond 24 hours this week, but we’ll see. I feel good, and I’m not looking to drop all the weight right now.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #59

Jennifer - let us know how that goes. I’m considering doing the same but am still on the fence.

(Jennifer) #60

I thoroughly enjoyed my fatty pork chops last night, but found myself envious of the broccoli salad I’d made for the rest of the family. I love my veggies, but I want to feel better. I’ve had various gut/IBS issues all my life, and it’s gradually gotten better with cutting out wheat, then going low carb, etc… Hopefully, this will help me determine a culprit, if there is one.

(Herb Martin) #61

Thx, that’s basically what I have been making for cheap electrolyte since about 2010, but never thought of it as “keto” since I was using it for rehydration at boxing practice and other high intensity (e.g., sweaty) workouts.

I frequently use sugar-free Crystal Lite in it since I am not a purist about artificial sweeteners etc.

When boxing I was exchanging as much as 2 gallons of water in under 2 hours (16 lbs) on a daily basis. I can afford commercial electrolyte solution but 8 quarts of it starts to add up daily, and if I make it myself then I control what’s in it – and can tune the flavor better.

For fasting, I don’t guzzle much so flavor only needs to be acceptable, but for boxing, I needed to put away a quart or so BEFORE training and down a total of at least 1 gallon (8 lbs) by a few minutes after finishing. That’s a lot of fluid to push if it isn’t tasty (and cheap. :slight_smile: )

I would weigh pre/post & measure fluid intake, drink 8 lbs worth, and be down 8 lbs at just about every practice during the summer months in a gym without air conditioning which is how I know there was a 2-gallon/16-lb exchange.

Without that electrolyte replacement, my blood pressure would go through the floor and so would I :slight_smile:

And if you try to replace that much with empty water the cramps are beyond anything I’ve ever experienced. (Whole body cramps, cramps on extensor and flexors of same limbs so you can’t stretch either without shortening the opposing muscle.)

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #62

Jennifer

The latest episode with Dr. Paul Mason is about gut, IBS, wheat and more. Might want to give a listen if you haven’t. Don’t know if you have listened to Dr Mason before but he is one of my favorites. Very good at explaining things well.

(Jennifer) #63

I haven’t listened yet. I’ll check it out. Gut health research is so confusing.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #64

I’m at 43+ hrs. This morning was a slight challenge because I am chalked full of admin work (year end, new year goals, yada yada…) I hate admin work but it is necessary. I’m technical and manage technical people and processes. I write code, I configure ~400 web sites. (188 in production).

Fasting when writing program code is a breeze. Not so when planning 6 weeks of admin work. But now that I am past the noon hour I’ll probably get better and better. So far evenings have been the 2nd easiest. Sleeping is the easiest.

I’m hunting for at least 70 hrs. Trying for 72. Wish me luck. I endeavor to persevere.

(Tamela Robinette) #65

I’m reaaaallllyyy starting to think about food now so definitely going to break at 66 hours which is two more hours. My stomach is making very loud noises Haha. I’m very proud of myself for this as my longest fast prior was 42 hours. Not sure I’ll do many more attempts past 42 as I don’t have much more to lose. We will see what comes off in the end and how much more I have to go to determine how I will proceed.

(Robert Desrochers) #66

Had a great day so far feel excellent I believe I washed out a lot of salt and mineral
I went out and. got some pink Himalayan salt and some bragg’s Apple cider vinegar an some lemons a little of this an that seemed to do the trick
I found a new to fasting post on here with good info
Bob

(Herb Martin) #67

Tamela, this post is for everyone and you’ve probably already broken your fast but here’s an idea people might consider:

When you’re feeling healthy but also like you must eat, another choice is to technically break a water fast VERY LIGHTLY and then just keep going.

The obvious choice is something like Bone Broth you have made ahead to use for refeeding transitioning at the end of the fast.

When Dr. Boz was helping her mother fight off cancer they were actually using a 1/4 cup twice a day I believe, but the limits and frequency can be your own.

It’s pretty easy to sneak out another few hours, another day, or many days by doing a bit of this or that which won’t take your ketones down much.

You can even use something like commercial chicken broth without noodles or filter them out (commercial bone broth stinks) etc.

Something MCT Medium Chain Triglycerides with sweetener you like to use can use can be mixed in water to make a SMALL ‘shake’ which will go right into your hepatic vein portal without passing through much of your intestines – the point is that STOP hunger quickly because it is immediately absorbed. (I’m told.) Of course you mix a few ounces, not a 32 oz monster.

Even a bit of heavy cream in your coffee or shake or something is perhaps more effective than stopping a fast you are otherwise ENJOYING and where you are healthy and gaining benefit.

With care, you could probably take a 4-7 ketone reading and keep it at 2-5 without much effort and your fast might not even notice but you would be a lot more comfortable.

This isn’t weakness if you do what is truly right for you and it probably makes sense for anyone at any number of days or even weeks if it helps reach the person’s own goals.

I quit at 2 weeks last time mostly because I was bored, but this idea might get me to 3 or more, or even back to 2 weeks THIS TIME.

My wife is doing really well – so proud of her – though she is taking about 2 oz of bone broth a couple of times per day, now at about 43 hours on her first go.

There’s a good chance she would have stopped at 36 hours (or before) without this ‘booster.’

She’s feeling good and finds this little treat delicious and satisfying beyond any reasonable expectation.

(Tamela Robinette) #68

Thank you. Very good to know for the next time around. Maybe I can get through a 5 day next time with your tips. This was my 1st three day, though I didn’t quite make it a full 3 days.

(Herb Martin) #69

Congratulations!!! (close to 3 days is very cool and it’s more than you have done before so that is always a big achievement.)

You are helping me too, because this is encouraging me to think about how to get my Carol or myself over a rough patch.

“Purity of following the rules” is not our real goal – certainly not mine. We aren’t trying to break records for Guinness or to win wagers, but rather working to improve our health and fitness.

Truthfully if I could figure out a sneaky way to lose 40 lbs safely without any diet I’d be on board in a heart beat.

So if boosting a fast extends the beneficial time or effect, I could not care less that it’s not a “true water fast” or some other artificial restriction.

I want the most effective AND the easiest results available – I’ll suffer a bit for better results but realistically things that are too hard, or even that are just too annoying, aren’t likely to become life-style changes.

That’s part of what I love about the carnivore diet – it’s so darn easy and enjoyable.

For me it began with, “try it for 30 days, you can stand on your head for 30 days”, and never even bothered to worry about when the 30 days was up – just kept going and that was 9 months ago this week – plus it led to fasting.

Best of all, full carnivore made fasting trivial for me to start and stick to for many days right from the beginning, plus it gave me a ‘safe’ place to fall back to when each fast ended.

For decades I’ve used keto to lose weight, and always maintained a pseudo-keto mindset even when I was eating atrociously (I wouldn’t eat a gratuitous carb because I wouldn’t waste it on anything less than my favorites like ice cream.)

But always on keto I was planning or scheduling “getting finished” with the idea of loosening the restrictions.

Carnivore doesn’t work like that for me – and not for many of my carnivore friends on Twitter etc.

Even with fewer choices, it’s paradoxically easier to maintain carnivore – I just have no desire to stop it at all.

I don’t understand this fully, but suppose that part of it is that it’s so easy and with ZERO identifiable carbs there is nothing to kick off the insulin cycle badly. (To be clear, protein does invoke an insulin response, just not as sharply or as large as carbs.)

This idea of cycling between carnivore, extended fasting, keto, and all sorts of flexible time-restricted feeding and intermittent fasts is amazingly powerful and I’ve only begun to explore it the last 6 weeks.

(I’ve spent almost 2/3 of that fasting. 29 of 45 days)

Gosh, I wished I knew this stuff in 1978 when we first started using Keto and mega-vitamins successfully. I really think it would have fixed 90% my unsuccessful issues with it.

We honestly thought fasting was dangerous, that it didn’t work much better than keto, and that fructose & complex carbs were good food (when you weren’t trying to lose weight at least.)

Of course, we had no effective Internet and certainly no YouTube or forums like this, Facebook, and Twitter. (And we were early online and Internet adopters. By '82 we were using online forums regularly but they were very limited, modem dial-up BBS systems, and I was fully on the Internet by 91 but there were NO web sites: Gopher protocol was an advanced technology then.)

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #70

48+ hrs now on my journey to ~72 hrs. Today was a little more challenging because the work I was doing was a bit boring. But I tend to do better in the evening and once I go to sleep I’m fine.

So on to day 3.

I measured my BG and BHB and got okay values. My insulin resistance is better though I have had better BG at about the same fasted time once before. But all in all, this is progress. I will probably measure tomorrow near the end of the fast. I hope to lose 2 lbs this week total.

I’m a few weeks away from no longer being obese.

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#71

Way to go, Eric. :+1: … Decided I’m going to go ahead and start another small Fast myself, starting after tonight’s meal, that was just over an hour ago. Was thinking about this the other day, and think I will start just doing a 120 hr. Fast every three months or so, but also want to try and put in some 48 and 72 hr. Fast here and there throughout the weeks in between. … For a time, I was only doing 4 and 5 day Fast, but the 2 to 3 day Fast is something I want to incorporate into the mix more often, with the longer fast more spaced out in duration. … This will allow for proper Fasting and enjoying some great meals.

First off… welcome Tanya. :slight_smile: Glad to hear of your success so far and sounds like you’re doing great. But yes, it can indeed be addicting at times, and I too have fallen into this as well. (Nothing wrong with that, and be assured, we are not alone in this. :slight_smile: But for me, I just miss a good meal from time to time.) So I try to make sure to Feast as much as I Fast, which makes for a good balance. Both are important.