Zoiks! Out on a limb and hanging on by my supplements!

#41

Sounds yum!

(Robin) #42

It really is! That’s why I managed to talk myself out of giving it up and myself agreed. :grinning:

#43

In fact it does just that. It changes everything. Carnivores understand this, other’s won’t who are not experiencing this plan for themselves. Our experiences can’t be judged or graded by anyone’s guessing, hey we are living it.

Of course alot of fine points overlap with carnivore from a general low carb, or Keto or whatever eating plan one is one…but at some point, when one is all carnivore, dropping all plants from life, and hold this plan longer term…then we actually have experiences others will not and our plan becomes every different in its effects and results. Just sayin’, alot of commonality but also a ton of difference in approaches and results also.

I base my carnivore info off the 4 zc forums I am on. Chatting thru 5 yrs of carnivore lifestyle wtih others doing the same as me, learning from the 15, 20 yr plus carnivore eaters who have a way of life they experience and can report real facts back and of course on sciences posted in those forums and the entire banded community opinions in that most do not track,-- tracking, heck we laugh like heck at tracking and all that stuff others do, it is not something that is for the majority, we pride ourselves on the fact we don’t have to do that anymore and drop it from our lives, but yes, a few will track cause they enjoy doing just that…most don’t…tracking is laughed about on carnivore forums, it isn’t a thing for us. Your few carnivore opinions I guess trumps my years of experience and actual on plan experiences and all those chatting in a carnivore forum day to day giving their results. oh well…

(Bob M) #44

OK, but many of use keto folks don’t track. I don’t. I never tracked anything, even carbs, as I felt that if I’m eating just vegetables, there’s no reason to track. And I don’t think “20 grams” is some miracle amount, as it’s only a guide. Plenty of people can eat more and be just fine. People may also be able to eat more over time, too, as they repair the damage they’ve done.

And I’ve seen quite a few people who failed at carnivore and quit. (Anyone hear of Saladino?)

As for tracking, I used to track when I was on Pritikin, so I could keep my fat below 10% of calories by day. But it’s way easier to track when you’re eating things like rice and beans. It’s way harder to track accurately when you’re eating something like ribeye. Unless you cut all the fat off and measure it separately, you’re guessing at the intake. Same with chicken and skin, or any fowl and skin. And let’s not forget if you drain anything, such as ground/minced meat. What calories can you record and how do you figure that out? (I.e., how much fat have you lost?)

And let’s not even get into the different calories/fat/etc. on different websites for the same food, or whether the chicken egg you’re eating actually have the nutrients in the database (probably not, since you have no idea what the chickens ate), etc.

Or if multiple people in your house are making meals. I could go on.

#45

absolutely but was it ‘really a fail’ as in one tried a plan, even for a long time, healed their body more, nourished their physical body more and ‘found as an individual’ they could add back in some foods? Many carnivores can go back to a keto, or general lc plan…but also many of us can’t…I see it as a fail when they are eating fruit and say they are carnivore LOL but if they admit they were carnivore and found they could go back into some plant foods and they thrive, then I don’t see that as a personal fail really.

I mean who doesn’t fail eating plan after eating plan just…thru XYZ til ‘we get it’ and succeed :crazy_face: cause we all been there for sure but key being we do fail the plan we try mostly. Keto people eating 100g of carbs and wondering why it isn’t working? Carnivores eating whatever on weekends and wondering why their 5 day carnivore plan is not giving great results, all general low kcal intake people wondering why they are starving and when they eat a crap ton more, gee, why is this failing? People fail, these plans kinda are not, well, except for that CICO crap mostly LOL

very true Ctv in that meat is a hard thing to track truly.
one ribeye to another, all sites showing ribeyes and whatever cut of meat and values they put on it are so widely varied. A cup of string beans is easier to calculate than eating a whole rotiss. chicken and nailing down those numbers.

Very true many don’t track, but a ton do, but on carnivore just saying as a plan, we just don’t use it, we find it inhibits the guidelines we require to change and get a foothold into this plan.

I liked your post…we all sure do vary on alot of stuff, ‘us dieter people’ but sometimes a post just hits home and I so agree with your post.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #46

I suppose it depends on one’s reasons for eating that way. A number of prominent carnivores, such as Amber O’Hearn, Georgia Ede, Kelly Hogan, and plenty more, eat carnivore because it helped with various conditions that could not be resolved any other way. (It is very difficult for Type II bipolar people to find a drug that helps, for example.) I would tend to suspect that anyone who “fails” at carnivore does so, only because he or she doesn’t need the health benefits of a meat-only, plant-free diet.

What I’m trying to say is that people with a shellfish or peanut allergy (for example) don’t fail to stick to an eating plan that excludes those foods, because the benefits of not eating them are so obvious that avoiding them is no problem at all.

#47

I think it’s fantastic that you don’t record everything. I think tracking leads to mental health problems. Being obsessive isn’t a good thing.

I was tracking everything at the beginning, but I knew I had to stop, because it means you’re thinking too much about food. As in thinking about the next meals, to make it fit in the idea of macros you think you should be sticking to and whatnot.

I think the ideal is to eat when you’re hungry then forget food exists until you’re hungry again. No thinking about food. The exception is groceries shopping, but this doesn’t have to happen every day. Make sure you have healthy food in the house, be it meat or whatever is your thing. Then forget about food.

As for coffee, it’s a plant. But lots of “carnivore” people drink coffee. With all diets, people like what they like and they find a justification to keep it in their diet of choice. As long as it helps, why not? You do you and don’t mind the food police.

I hope you feel better with it.

I’ve tried for a few months. It wasn’t for me, but I did enjoy how easy it was.

(Robin) #48

It was a natural progression for me to go ZC. On keto, I was able to easily identify what food bothered me. And eliminating them did indeed work. So after I gave up cheese, and I was sick of eggs, I had already taken up residency in carnivore territory. I think I was zero carb before I realized it.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #49

@Corals I’ll take the bait and disagree.

I weigh, measure and record everything I eat. I designed a spreadsheet to do all the calculations automagically. I am not obsessed about it and have no mental health problems. I just do it because it works for me. I don’t think about food much at all. In fact I only think about food when I’m preparing and eating it. I’d bet I spend less time thinking about food, preparing and eating it than most folks here who do not weigh, measure and record.

I do this because I do not have normal hunger and satiety signals. I did when I ate SAD but the last time I was ‘hungry’ was January 3, 2017. That was the second day of my 4-day fast to start keto. By the morning of the next day the hunger was gone. Never to return. I also seldom feel ‘satiated’. I can always ‘eat more’. But I don’t because I don’t have to do so - and know I don’t. I have maintained my overall weight at 144-5 pounds and BF at 14-15% for 4 1/2 years. Just saying. Maybe I’m a :unicorn: but food is not the center of my life.

I see food like a driver on the highway running out of gas sees an upcoming service station. I want to get in, get refueled and on the road again. The service station is not my destination.

#50

As did I, not sure why you assume I don’t come from a place of experience on that. My hunger/satiety didn’t magically fix when I was eating carnivore.

#51

No? You’re not trying to do everything that makes you the best version of you? I got the total opposite impression.

(Bob M) #52

I think part of what happens is that we get in our own “bubbles”, including the one the 2 keto dudes have created here.

For the carnivores, the places you go online get testy about things like drinking coffee and tea. They also attract those who really do very well on carnivore. But you don’t get those that failed at (or don’t need) carnivore, so you never get the other side of the story.

Even here, some of us use the “carbs are not necessary” saying. While this is true, many folks can get by with much higher carb intakes. I see a guy on Twitter who has lost 80 pounds, looks great, and eats around 80 grams of carbs per day. Does TRE, but no real fasting.

But I think we tend to ostracize the folks who can eat higher carb and still do well. The 2 keto dudes have built a forum, and the forum tends to attract, those who are quite insulin resistant and probably need – at least initially – very low carb.

Not everyone does, though, and some people can eat higher carb, especially over time. Even the original Diet Doctor went higher protein, lower fat, higher carb and lost weight.

Just because someone feels great on carnivore, doesn’t mean everyone has to be carnivore.

Just because someone feels great on keto, doesn’t mean everyone has to be keto.

And while it’s interesting to see people who go from keto to carnivore and get benefits, not everyone has to do this.

I think what’s happening is that we’re getting into our “groups” and thinking those not in our group are “wrong”. But that’s not necessarily true for many. Many other people don’t need carnivore…or keto… and may actually be better off being in neither one of those.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #53

The goal of helping people reverse Type II diabetes is pretty much a priority in the Dudes’ thinking, that’s for sure.

True, but for me, the notion that people can eat carbohydrate doesn’t mean they should. Just as the fact that people can tolerate a given amount of some toxin doesn’t make ingesting it a great idea. Give us another million years of eating carbohydrate, and no doubt the picture will have changed.

(Bob M) #54

I think some carbs may be helpful for some people. For instance, Diet Doctor ate a few more carbs and lost weight. Jerry Teixiera eats around 100 grams of carbs per day.

This guy:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPEAhtSZDkTb0rDGrtaSU7A

As does Ted Naiman. This guy:

https://www.tednaiman.com/index.html

image

Both of them are ripped, so those results don’t mean everyone should eat carbs.

But since gaining weight on the Croissant Diet, I’ve increased my carbs slightly, lowered fat again, and am eating higher protein (lean meats) again, and have lost almost all the weight I gained. For me, we’re talking adding things like tomatoes (in season), salsa, onions, some vegetables, coconut flakes, some chocolate so it’s not a huge amount of carbs.

But I think some people can have actual benefits (yes, benefits) from eating higher carbs. Maybe not 100 grams a day, but maybe. Depends on how much you are exercising, how long you’ve been low carb, amount of muscle mass, age, etc.

(Linda ) #55

I keep trying to eat lower fat but for some reason the protein if I go too lean like bottom round doesn’t hold me over for very long I wish it but I gotta keep trying different options I guess loo

(Robin) #56

This. This is what I mean by there is no right way, no wrong way, and definitely no better way. What works for me is MY better. Like my gym says… this is (or should be) a judgement-free zone. :grinning:

(Robin) #57

I truly am going for good enough. Healthy. Appearance is a bonus, but doesn’t make my short list.

#58

It doesn’t overnight for any carnivore. Time on plan, might be 6 mos, 1 yr or 2 years before an individual might get full benefits from carnivore but a few days a week or a month on carnivore means nothing in the realm of what benefits one achieves. But longer term use of this planis key which again, we know most won’t give it and if one is carnivore 2-3-4 days a week but eats whatever on other days, no, your benefits will never equal those of not doing this. So it is all about doing the plan and committing all in.

@ctviggen
I agree that many do well on a moderate carb menu and thrive…but that word moderate. I can’t do moderate and I think you are right about how carbs will effect each of us and that is where we have to land and I do think alot of us here, need to be here in that ‘go very low carb’ eating plan :slight_smile:

What is tough is when someone not doing the same plan as you can comment on how to do your plan. Tells someone what ‘they need’ when they don’t have a clue on progression of the plan longer term and more. I am not saying people aren’t smart and can’t research info about plans etc…I get that, but when it comes to experience speaking, you have to let the experience speak ya know.

I think failing plans sometimes and as we backslide shows us so much about what it takes for us to succeed. What is fail on a diet menu change? Not keeping the plan for life, long term and keeping the lbs off one did lose is my opinion on it…so I would we all did that :slight_smile: But at some point we all found what we require also to go long term health fix changes for each of us.

If one can eat some carbs and are healthy and thrive and it fits their lifestyle and personality to hold that plan and get results, darn right eat up a few carbs if all is well and going great, then hey it is a win win.

But thing with carnivore, it is NOT an easy plan to come into and to set one’s goals on long term. Many are so freaked by eating just animal that mentally they can’t handle it LOL It is a full elimination, full on dropping so much variety from your life and effects those social events, vacation eating, holidays of ol’ time favs the family made for generations and is changing every single thing about your life in food as a person thru all your years on this planet. So usually when one hits carnivore and holds it long term and thrives, we truly need to be here! We put in the mindset changes to make this plan work with us and not against us ya know from that wanting to jump ship cause it was such a hard plan to accept.

For me I tried year after year to hold carbs! Oh my god I didn’t want to drop them at all. I tried every single way in my journey to keep carbs in my life to give me variety, to give me that ease of eating out or getting thru holidays and eating crazy local fancy foods on vacation in new locations…but in the end I personally ended up here on carnivore. It suited me to a T in wonderful results, feeling my best, actually thriving and gaining benefits I love, but darn it was a mental game to flip into a life of eating animal only for my life. And heck alot of people have issues just changing to a lower carb intake too LOL and they have to accept they can’t eat like before too so all of us have to walk that darn walk of what we aren’t eating anymore, but darn, carnivore is the granddaddy of all plans on what foods we do give up…but when here, it fits us ya know. It is like our niche of people who found the plan that suits them so well. And yea, not everyone needs to be here nor does everyone require this plan in any way to thrive on eating healthier.

#59

That’s true. The medium lean meats might suit you better than the very lower lean meats.

In that so many carnivores eat eggs and ‘they fill them up’ --where to me, I can eat a dozen eggs and feel I didn’t eat anything. No holding power at all so yes, you will have to find your lower meats but use a bit higher fat intake to satiate you. Keep experimenting, you will hit that cut of meat that suits you well.

(Robin) #60

This all makes sense to me. I am such a newbie at “wanna be” carnivore. But I believe it will serve my addict heart’s need for total abstinence. My comfort zone is when I have really well defined boundaries that I simply don’t cross.