Zoiks! Out on a limb and hanging on by my supplements!


(Robin) #1

Greetings! After 16 months of keto, I have gradually eliminated so many foods, I find myself in the dreaded land of the carnivore. I have hesitated to take up residency. Cautionary tales of the unbending carnivores are daunting. But the more I interact with the natives, the more I feel this place suits me. Although I might struggle with an authoritarian approach. I am pretty intuitive and open to adaptations as they arise .

First question: Currently I am looking at my trusty supplements that I began with keto.

I take Magnesium (helps with sleep, regularity, and muscle cramps), and Potassium, and Sodium. I also take CoQ10 for my ldl, and I take D3K2 cuz I’m an older human I guess. Additionally, I take collagen powder. I’ve seen too many changes to give that up.

Is it your experience that after adjusting to carnivore I will no longer need Mag, Potassium, and Sodium?

Also… my original goal with keto was weight loss. Not health problems. But I may have an unnecessary attachment to my basic supplements. What say you?


(Allie) #2

I tend to keep doing what I’m doing as long as it feels good, but go with the flow and make changes when something feels off. So if what you’re doing is working, why mess with it?


#3

Ah, it’s such a difficult one with carnivore - it’s a very restrictive plan on paper, and I can see why people make concessions. The problem is, when people make concessions, sometimes the plan doesn’t work as expected, then they complain and say the carnivore plan is rubbish…

…and all of the carnivores say, “Well, you didn’t really give it a shot. If you did it properly, it’d work!”

So yeah, it can come across as unbending - but I guess if we had people coming on and saying they were doing keto, but every night they had a high carb dessert, we might be thinking, “Gosh, you might do better knocking that dessert out of your diet.” It’s kind of the same for carnivores seeing dark chocolate or avocado or something else in a carnivore way of eating - they encourage people to ditch those things so they can be more rigidly on plan.

I always say this, but I think it bears repeating; I started carnivore with concessions. I couldn’t do without certain things - so it was either ‘carnivore + concessions’ or ‘stay keto’. But I soon did a 180 - being on carnivore meant my tastes changed, so I didn’t want those things and I dropped them with ease.

And doing carnivore 95% for a few months meant that I got to a point, naturally, where I’m 100% carnivore.

Anyway, supplements:

There’s a great video with the ten year+ carnivores where they talk about not needing supplements and/or salt.

But equally, there are people on this forum who talk about needing salt or needing magnesium etc.

It’s hard to determine exactly why. Some of it might be n=1. Some might be length of time on plan. Some might be the state that our bodies are in when we start carnivore; some of us might be a few hundred metres behind the starting line.

I have a couple of health issues, and I found that supplementation has caused a major improvement - so I am reluctant to make any changes at the present time. But I am open to no longer needing the supplements in the future, as my body becomes more nourished.

I think I am trying to say that it doesn’t make you less of a carnivore if you keep the supplements in - but equally, if you feel you don’t need them, you could always experiment by removing one at a time for the short term, and see how your body reacts. As much as there are broad, applicable rules for everyone, it always comes down to an n=1 in the end.


(Carnivore for the win) #4

N=1. I hadn’t supplemented my pottasium for a long time prior to carnivore and haven’t had to since the change from keto.

My taste have changed, and unseasoned meat is just fine with me, so adding salt for flavour is unnecessary. Initially, on carnivore, I wanted added salt, for flavouring. That created my need for magnesium.

The more added salt I consume, the more water I drink due to increased thirst, which seems to flush out other electrolytes. I occasionally want added salt, and sometimes have to take a magnesium pill if my feet cramp. But it is more rare as I go. After two years of carnivore, I add salt about once every week or two and take magnesium around once a month.


(Robin) #5

@Septimius @Elliot-W @Shortstuff WOW! Thanks, I appreciate all of this.
I’m being sarcastic about the dreaded carnivore group. But I remember at the beginning of my keto journey, looking at carnivores like the all powerful overlords. LOL. Now, I have ended up carnivore naturally. Always the best path.

Based on this feedback, I’ll let most of my supplements run out. I’ll experiment with the magnesium (leg cramps).

I’ve been reading the carnivore posts and have a pretty good idea of the concept. How basic can you get, right?

Rookie questions/clarifications:

  1. Carnivore is not for weight loss and I might actually see a gain initially…? I’m ok with that.

  2. The ultimate purpose of carnivore is to heal the body, yes? I saw improvements in inflammation and arthritis on keto. That should continue? (And I suspect my dead libido recently rising from the grave may be hormonal changes from my slipping into carnivore.) I won’t ask y’all to list the benefits, I will do my research. Just curious what makes YOU stay carnivore.


#6

@Septimius
Loved your post! Just full of great info :slight_smile:

@robintemplin

OK, you are coming this way into carnivore. I get that cause I tiptoed into this way also thru going lower and lower with carbs and finding my only best life was on Atkins '72 Induction food and I never ate the salad or pickle they said I could have LOL

So you are walking this way and wondering…what now?

Think this. Carnivore plan IS an elimination plan. It shows us truths that fit us and shows truths of things we might need to compensate with, such as needing more salt or some mag. to ‘get thru adaption’…so with it being ‘elimination plan’ as a reset to start again and heal…you have to come into it dumping everything mostly.

You need to dump ALL SUPPS when you start this lifestyle…and if you feel you need back something, yea you can add back, but it might surprise you :slight_smile: you might need nothing back. I was mag, pot and supp’d with some multi vit before I came into this Carnivore plan and dumped it ALL per instructions and found I rarely needed anything back and NOW I take 0. I did do some mag for a few cramps in the legs I got but that was fast and gone away easily for me…in the end, I ain’t taking another supp ever in my life, carnivore showed me I don’t need any, but again, that IS me and if you are one who might need something later and you improve on it, then ya really know after dumping it :slight_smile:

Now we are all different in that some have to come in beef/water at least 90 days for heal/health cause they must or you could be that one that your LC plan or keto walk conditioned you alot more toward healing and can come into this ‘more relaxed’ carnivore.

One thing we do is dump all sugar and all plant products.

We eat animal kingdom only.

So if you want carnivore this is the basics but some ‘can play a tad’ with allowing a bit of taco spice on a burger, add in some dairy cause you already know you ‘do well on some cheese’ thru your life coming this way.

So it can be a tad shades of gray coming here but if you want carnivore you dump all sugar and you dump all plants…as food…you can have a tad of spice on meat, you can have some deli meats that might had a smidge of sugar in processing BUT KEY is we go for the absolute lowest nil intake of sugar on any processed stuff, spices/herb mixes we use…and we use them sparingly. Read those labels!

So key is you here

And yea we SEEM DO darn scary I know HAHA

but for many of us THIS is where we must be and IF SOMEONE asks truths of what this plan can do for you…one must come into it with full knowledge of what it is all about. In carnivore if you want to see real body/physical truths you have to do this plan very tight, very careful and take it slow and ASK questions about this and that but also ‘feel you’ thru it and commit all in at least 3 months to honestly show changes.

Cool for you for asking about it all :slight_smile: I love someone open minded and wants some info on next steps.

Oh and edited to say my FANGS is only about my carnivore lifestyle, I will rip into meat HA but I won’t nail any poster to the wall and be mean, well mostly, I had my moments but in truth I am a cuddly little ol’ tabby cat with Fangs, not a Lion on the prowl with Fangs HA


(Robin) #7

Thank you, thank you! I guess my current state is meat, meat, meat and decaf coffee with heavy whipping cream. I can thank my diverticulitis for easily being triggered. Veggies and nuts were always the culprits, so I ditched them a few months ago. No colon or gut issues since.

Maybe I will eventually give up my HWC, which will likely lead to me giving up my decaf coffee. (Cuz what’s the point?) Just realized (DOH!) that coffee is a nut or bean. Hmmm…. I think I’ll take a week off and reevaluate.

And I love FANGS as your name. Makes perfect sense now. LOL


#8

now many keep coffee cause they love it and do well on HWC but it is a personal journey for you.

do you want caffeine out of your life?
does HWC give you anything? keep it with or without coffee? again up to you

for me I am not a coffee drinker ever but I use HWC for making my alfredo sauce at home. HWC, fresh grated parm and butter and put that over any meat I love…yea I was on that for a long time LOL til about a year ago I dumped it cause I had no draw to it plus I found it was ‘almost too much work’ to make HA

just ask us carnivores if something feels right or off to you about the plan, we all can show you what suits you and how to roll…no problem on that if ya wanna come this way


(Edith) #9

It really is amazing how different we all are. I am the exact opposite. Now that I have gotten my sodium intake high enough, I am NOT thirsty all the time and I am finally holding onto my electrolytes. Crazy!

@robintemplin, that was a great post you made!


#10

It was some extreme, hardcore group to me that I never will get close :smiley:

It seems supplement wise too, people are simply different. Do what works for you.
I can’t really take supplements, it’s against my core personality or something. I had cramps on keto (always due to too little magnesium, at least a magnesium pill always solved it) and that was motivation to supplement magnesium so I had 1-2 250mg pill a month. I just can’t supplement more unless I am in pain without but I never was.
But if I eat enough meat and little enough carbs (being quite close to carnivore), I don’t need magnesium. I always needed it here and there on keto (my old keto, I mean, it was a carbier vegetarian keto). If I went into ketosis without, I got calf cramps.
I will look up how much magnesium I eat on carnivore but it’s probably still lowish compared to the usual advice/requirements but as I eat differently, who knows how my needs change? We know that our Vitamin C need drastically lowers on carnivore, maybe it happens with other nutrients as well. Probably do.

I never supplement sodium (not even when I fast but I can’t seem to do EF on carnivore yet) but that’s me. The more carnivore(-ish) days I have, the less saltiness I like in my food but it’s merely significant,. not very drastic, I still like my salt, I just need somewhat less. But I am just an on/off carnivore-ish since almost 2 years, I surely will change in the future - and do whatever my body wants me to do salt wise.
Other find they need much salt and that’s just as fine. Each to their own.

Why I tried to do carnivore despite it felt Very Surreal for many months? :smiley: And I have no problem with plants at all (just with their carb content. except peanuts, my body doesn’t like them in more than minimal amounts. too bad I was super addicted to them on keto), don’t believe they are usually bad for me, I don’t even think I need healing though surely my health can be improved so yep, maybe a tad… But I felt healthy enough on HCHF as well let alone low-carb. Keto didn’t give me much benefits, only fat adaptation but my body liked eating less and less carbs…
Nope, my main reason is that carbs mess with me, mostly mentally, well mentally/physically? I always had a hard time to get satiated. I always did it, no way I stay hungry (except on my yearly maybe one Insaniable Hunger Day… I never had that on carnivore, not even on carnivore-ish but I didn’t have soooo many carnivore-ish days yet. many but not nearly as many as carbier ones and it’s a rare thing) but it took very very much food. I overate almost all my life as I was hungry and undisciplined and compelled to eat. It’s multilayered. I had some food addictions too.
And carnivore just solved these problems right away. My food addictions disappeared, my decades long “sweets on the end of meal” went away (keto didn’t help as I actually needed lots of sweets there to get my nutrients while keeping my carbs low enough), it did very good to (against) my stupid compulsions… I can’t just eat meat until I get satiated so some hardships were present here and there but usually it’s so chill and enjoyable and all is good! I still go astray due to reasons but as time passes,
I get better and anyway, my off days are nothing like in the past. My egg and meat is my normal food. I may add extras sometimes but I don’t go and try to get satiated with something carby, it would be stupid, unpleasant and ineffective. I strongly prefer my normal food, that gives me most joy and least problems.
But I do it for weight-loss too. I consider it my only real chance, at least if I can stick to OMAD on most days (2 meals are way too much food for me, usually. not always and I do need my TMAD days as I can’t eat big enough meals every day on OMAD). Nothing this far but it’s a good method, I just need to stick to it :wink: Whenever I manage to do it stricter and/or longer, it seems to do good. And I get stronger so I don’t care about fat-loss even as little as before right now, I want bigger muscles :smiley:
Oh and I want more energy. I suspect I will get it if I stick to carnivore(-ish). I seem to be a less miserable zombie on carnivore in the morning. I never have much energy, it’s individual and I don’t get that luck but every little improvement is good. I typically had low-ish energy on my original keto.
I would do almost anything for much energy. I would eat ONLY meat for it and I really would like to avoid that fate, I love my eggs. But much energy must be awesome to have.
Well-being is important too and the less carbs I eat, the better I feel… But if it would be just some peace instead of more hunger and sometimes compulsive eating, I already would be hooked. Give me more than minimal carbs and I can eat huge amounts (and “I can” means here that it’s very easy and under some too common circumstances I feel compelled to do so)… And 1-3 hours later I can repeat it. High protein and high fat can’t help with that, carbs must be very, very low. So I have some weird sensitivity to carbs…? OMAD kind of solves this problem but it’s still far from ideal. And carby OMAD would be good only for maintenance anyway but only if my body would like carbs. It doesn’t.

Elimination is very useful. I have my stricter times. I often try no dairy for a while. I ended up with no cheese almost all the time, now I eliminate cream but a few items have their uses. But I still have no dairy times too (except maybe a little butter here and there), I plan such a week on November (or more time, I don’t know, I do until it’s comfortable. I don’t push it as I don’t seem to have problems with dairy, it’s just often unnecessarily and in the case of some items, it triggers something not so good like eating too much fat… I too easily eat a ton of fat - carnivore helps a lot though -, no need to use non-satiating fatty dairy!). Some people actually need a no dairy policy, I am fine with this food group but it boosts my calories and I don’t need that (maybe quark being the exception, it’s protein rich and not very fatty, it probably satiates me but as I always use a little, I can’t tell). They don’t feel proper food anyway. I mean, not good for staples. A little for variety if one can handle them is fine. I had times when I just couldn’t eat enough using ONLY eggs and meat, I needed my dairy then (even if it always was a little amount, it helped me eating more eggs than without).

Oh yep, this is my desire too. Except my coffee isn’t decaf but only because normal coffee is cheaper and I found a nice non-bitter one, I really don’t care. Of course, it’s naivety to underestimate my coffee addiction (my only food/drink addiction that did nothing on carnivore)! I drink coffee with eggs and butter now, sometimes black. But I don’t like it black and my fasting window is long so I really hope my 10+ coffees a day times won’t come back… (Weak coffees but still. Stupid thing.)


(Robin) #11

I have zero caffeine. Both coffee and tea are decaf. So I don’t get the energy boost some do. My morning decaf is a lifelong habit. But I know I can easily go a week without. And if I can go a week with no issues, I’ll likely just give it up.


(Carnivore for the win) #12
  1. Coming from 18 months of keto, I lost a bit of weight initially on carnivore, but now I weigh more than before I started, by about 5 pounds. I don’t think it was fat gain though, as I look much more lean and strong after a couple of years of carnivore. My muscles are definitely stronger and have more endurance.

  2. It will heal the body, no doubt about that, but I also found it helped my mind. I am more calm and grounded eating carnivore. I think due to my hormones achieving better balance. That is one reason I stick with carnivore. The other is the inflammation I get when I eat carbs or plants. It had gotten much better with keto, but it was still there. Eating carnivore, the inflammation has gone way down, even compared to keto. There are a host of other benefits, but I’m sure you will figure them out as you go.


(Robin) #13

Thanks. Lots to look forward to!


(Carnivore for the win) #14

That is how I started carnivore. My first few attempts at carnivore, I couldn’t get enough fat, and it made me feel ill. I think from being out of ketosis, but not totally sure. To fix the transition from keto, I had decaf coffee with heavy whipping cream and butter every day. After a few months, my body adjusted and I found the coffee unnecessary. Now I have a decaf every couple of weeks for fun, and I don’t feel it effects my health.


#15

I say track with Cronometer and see in real life if you’re coming up short on stuff, no need to guess, no need to take stuff you don’t need. But very few are getting everything they need from food. All that said “getting enough” isn’t the same as optimal. I don’t want to just be healthy “enough”, I want to be super healthy. I don’t want to look my age, I want to look younger than that. Given that you EASILY look a decade+ under your age, I’d say that’s probably your deal too. “Good enough” is for the lazy :stuck_out_tongue:


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #16

Many people who have been carnivore for any length of time find they no longer need supplements or even to add salt to their food. They seem to get enough, just from the meat they are eating. You may or may not find this to be true for you.

But I strongly doubt that any long-term carnivore will tell you what you have to do. Though they don’t hesitate to give advice based on their experience, however. The only strongly-worded advice I have seen from carnivores is that the solution to almost any problem someone experiences while trying to adapt to a carnivore diet is to eat more meat.

As far as weight loss is concerned, a fairly typical pattern is that someone may put on a few pounds temporarily, but this generally fixes itself over time on the diet.


#17

you can achieve that all on the ZC plan without tracking a thing…hundreds of thousands are doing just that :slight_smile: but of course, some must have to be more managed thru their own medical issues and more so of course, yes, be interactive in that issue but as I know you didn’t blanket statement your post about carnivores, I just wanted to say MOST carnivores never track, find health to the max, don’t require any supps and never will and also do the best they ever did without eating organs or having ‘extra whatever meats’ in their lives so…just throwing that out there as a supplemental voice to carnivore.

No one can guess if they are coming up short on vits/minerals truly from a track app device. All are mostly saying, with carbs in your life you require thru some govt. food pyramid food recommendation based on that —us carni people don’t eat the plant life so we are ‘not the norm’ ever about what the USDA or whomever recommends for ‘optimal intake’ of this vit or that mineral truly.

Most people aren’t out to be Superman either. No Wonder Woman is gonna be that goal for most out there in life and it is super cool some wanna achieve that, but darn most want off the diet rollercoaster, just improved joint and overall health and well being, lose some darn lbs, gain up some energy and make improvements that with age we find thru our menu are truly concerning for other aging disease we can’t afford or want and such. ZC is a great way to go for just that, along with Keto or general LC and being smart about one’s menu and health.


(Linda ) #18

Even though I’ve jumped up in weight thats precisely why I stay carnivore I got to goal of 135 but getting there was still by restriction both on keto and when I first started carnivore.
At first it bothered me and kind of frightening to think well dam now I’m putting it on again…but in the end some days I’m up 6 somedays it’s 10 but I’m not counting calories I’m not counting carbs I’m eating til’m full so not white knuckles my way to the next meal. I and I’m finally off the diet train which to me is huge…im coming up 9months carnivore and a few of those was with restriction…and I’m still wearing size 4/5 so I’m didn’t gain much in size
As for supplements only krill oil capsules and magnesium if im constipated which the cause was cheese so took that out back so now its just krill oil for omega 3 since I don’t eat grass fed /grass finished only meat I buy what’s in my local store.
I’m under Dr cywes and he tests my blood regularly so I have no issues with not getting enough…


#19

I know this and I know you are like me to know we are off that insanity!
It was a train wreck for me also and I know carni gives life and healing and food for us to eat thru satiaty, doesn’t destroy and wreck me mentally like it did on other plans.

When carnivore fits us, it fits us and we are here and we will get our results and we can do it calmly thru time :slight_smile:
Great post Azi!


(Vic) #20

:rofl: brilliant

We are the overlords :crazy_face: