You can't expect your body to let go of fat that it still needs


#21

The emotional/psychological side is very real.

There was a long while in my teens and 20s when I thought I was over eating out of greed and pathetic lack of willpower.

Turns out it was reactive hypoglycaemia and carb addiction causing cravings, carb binges, cyclical starvation diets - with a knock on effect of low self esteem and depression.

When I got the carbs down, the cravings vaporised and that took away the RH mood swings and self esteem issues. The depression went when I got my Vit d up.

In addition, the body holds on to fat and fluid for other reasons too. Not drinking enough water, not sleeping enough and insuffient key nutrients are well known to cause this. Food intolerances may cause inflammation and water retention too.

Will pop back with some references when I have access to my home PC.

Edited to add:

Not drinking enough stalls weight loss




Plus, drinking more reduces water retention, so we weigh less, even if that lost weight is fluid not fat.

nutrient insufficiencies causing weight loss stalls
Insufficient protein



insufficient magnesium causing insulin resistance


food intolerances
Vitamin D deficiency



lack of sleep


(Maura hAGERTY) #22

Thank you Sarah B for the post of interesting things to ponder. I do think understanding our “fat story” can help release us tp the next level…and important to understand (and heal) so we won’t go back to old patterns. I do love the “show me the science” aspect of this keto forum AND I think its just plain healthy to address all aspects of our process to become healthy.


(Karen) #23

Who does poop transplants? I have a thin sister-in-law. I’m sure she’d be willing to give me some of her poop…


#24

Make the toilet not flushable when she comes to visit and feast away!


(Brian) #25

I know it sounds pretty disgusting but fecal transplants are quite interesting.


(Sandra ) #26

They’re even suggesting fecal transplants for Caesarian babies to replace the poop bacteria they ingest on the way through the birth canal in a vaginal birth. It comes from the normal mom’s own bacteria as well. Caesarian babies have a proven safety risk for food sensitivities and allergies. And, as suggested, prebiotics can help restore the gut, and the gut influences our moods and emotions. Emotions influence our obesity or lack of. It’s all connected. :wink:


(Hank) #27

As someone who was first put on a diet 55 years ago (I was 5 years old) and have been on and off diets all of my life I have some opinions on this subject.

Currently I have been on a plateau for 3 months. Over this period I have tried everything. No carbs, less calories, more food, more carbs, more exercise, less exercise…

In the last three days I have seen some slight movement, am I about to breakout and begin lowering again? Who knows. Over three months my weight shifted up and down between 288 and 283. Hardly enough to warrant any trend. Over this period I have thought about how my weight has changed over the last 55 years. Her are my thoughts:

I never lose weight when my stress level is high.
I never lose weight in the summer.
I typically only lost weight in March and April.
This year, I lost more weight in May thru mid June than any point in my Keto history.

Now, I have some confidence at this point that the my eating and exercise had no real effect. Further, for me it may just be a seasonal thing, I don’t lose weight when the temps get over 95 degrees outside.

My stress level has been steadily building all year. It’s work related. Nothing new. In the last three days I have seen some light at the end of the tunnel. (corresponds with the slight indication of weight loss).

My body may have just decided it wanted to stay at 285 for a while. One thing I accepted at this point is that if I didn’t ever see the 270’s I was ok with that. I know I won’t ever see 300 again either.

In closing, our bodies are living tissue. Everything matters. Mental state, environmental conditions, food intake, activity levels… and everything doesn’t. As a living organism what we do and think may not agree with how we react as an organism.


(Robin Nandin) #28

I have experienced that also.


#29

I’m pretty much the same in that my weight stays in a very narrow range. In my case any movement either side (even within the confines of a ‘healthy’ bmi) can have an impact seemingly out of all proportion. I think the fact that I fidget (one reason I believe I remain thin) a lot could easily be seen as psychological but my own theory is that there is a definite physiological component - my body is trying to stop me from storing calories that could tip me from pre-diabetes into diabetes. I also can’t lose too much or my reproductive system shuts down even if I’m not underweight by bmi standards. If there can be an upper end to a personal fat threshold can there not be a lower end?


(Ryan Ashton) #30

The main problem I have with your write-up is that you imply that somehow one’s body has a will of it’s own. It doesn’t. The body operates as the body operates. Hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have created a body that runs like it does.

There is no way that you could ever force your body to do anything. Your body is simply reacting to what you put into it and when you put it in.

If you’ve plateaued, there is a physiological reason. If, on the other hand, you have sworn off eating breakfast but then still eat breakfast, that is a psychological reason and needs to be addressed as such.

As I already mentioned, your body is not independent of you and can’t “heal” or “protect” you. It simply does what it is designed to do.

My suggestion is that if you’ve plateaued, find out more science and apply that science to your problem. Don’t turn “the body” into a separate sentient being that has it’s own thoughts and ideas. That’s the opposite of science. That’s called superstition and it’s superstition that is the greatest danger to the ketogenic movement.

We have a chance to change the world, but we need to do it scientifically.


(Ryan Ashton) #31

Have you tried Intermmitent Fasting?

Insulin is THE reason your body stores fat. Decrease the amount of insulin and the number of times it spikes (from consuming food) and you’ll use more body fat stores for energy.

Also, here is a list of 14 things you an do to decrease your insulin resistance (based on science):


#32

Some good tips here.


#33

@Sarah_Bruhn your empathic points about the mind-body intelligence and the many still unknown and quite non-linear processes and criticially important recoveries that go on within it (esp when it has a trauma history and/or is female) can be encouraging to both trauma survivors and so-called “slow losers” - thank you. :avocado:

@Ryan_Ashton “The main problem with your write up is…” followed by misuse of the quote functionality for absolutisms volleying is confusing. Thinly veiled bullying or aggrieved entitlement? With no attempt to frame yourself, it could be taken as mundane mansplaining - and actually not “good tips”. Additionally, without emojis or gifs, there’s no emotional tone to clarify anything otherwise, so I just stopped reading.

I think we need to ask “what science?” - because modern science is not the only kind of science, and, neither is modern science very intrepid in many regards. It’s often simply PAID, as Jason Fung MD so well recently laid out in a recent awesome interview :heart_eyes: Excellent new video talk by Dr. Fung: On balancing insulin/leptin - and on Research Politics!

Bessel Van der Kolk MD is the first physician who has connected the science of body-based trauma in significant published research. Trauma and shock embodiment impact the brain, nervous system, endocrine system and more in ways that can seem quite independent - and the body tells the truth of our experience.

It was only about 15 years ago that industrial medical science acknowledged that infants feel pain. Up until that time, many tortuous practices and/or routine protocols were done on newborns in hospitals with little regard for properly interpreting their specific extreme distress screams. Add to that, the cultural context of minimizing early shock and trauma and denying the systemic nature of various kinds of violence when it has to do with exploiting and/or terrorizing children, females, people of color, indigenous peoples, differently-abled people - and its epidemic proportions of walking wounded.

Similarly, it’s only been quite recently that both stress-related cortisol combined with other things like IR and environmental endocrine disrupters are being scientifically understood as a western industrial equation in terms of body fat among other things (moreso for those with trauma histories as well as for females in general and midlife female metabolisms in particular, along with vulnerable children in their developmental years). Some bodies recompose much slower than others even with best practices for LCHF/keto and/or IF. It’s a well known fact that most “science” in this regard is founded in male-centered confirmation biases and inquiry, etc.

I think western science is quite immature both in terms of chronological time, as well as in its outlook (“unless western science names it, it never existed before, and all those ancient cultures and their many advanced knowledge bases don’t matter”) - as well as ethics (as in, who pays for what studies at which schools and so on) - far behind the integrative and functional understanding of eastern science.

But, Dr. Van der Kolk and a small contingent of trauma specialists are doing some great work to advanced body-based modalities that work directly with the stone age nervous system and often are much more effective than years of talk therapy or identity-based superficial fixes.

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma-dp-0143127748/dp/0143127748/ref=mt_paperback?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=


#34

(On that theme of trauma and how it’s stored in the body let’s not forget the work of Peter Levine since the '70s)


#35

Love his work! Didn’t mention him as he’s a PhD psychologist not an MD, which was my focus - but YES! A trailblazer in the field.


#36

What…really!!! You lost 40lb in 8 weeks, that’s incredible…well done.


(Bev) #37

Glad I’m not the only one who does that!


(Mary) #38

Thanks for the link, Ryan.
I’d hoped there might be something in there that I haven’t tried but sadly, no.
And yes, I IF for 16-24 hours daily. Am trying to work up to 36 hours a couple times a week.


(Wendy) #39

That is simply not true. The body is constantly doing things that I have no ultimate control over. Things like breathing, heart beat, fighting infections. And I believe keeping the metabolism where the body deems it to be. Burning the calories it knows it has with a much bigger goal and complexity than science at this point can explain. Science is simply a way to explain truths, or at least try.
But I do agree it does do what it was designed to do, and usually quite well.


(Kirk Wolak) #40

Hank,
First, I would recommend Intermittent Fasting. It’s the simplest thing to do. Currently I eat one meal, on MWF (mostly carnivore and fatty. Bacon + Whatever I want, until I am full).

One of the things I truly found was that Food Allergies (Imagine being allergic to your favorite veggies. That’s me). The less I ate the better I felt. Because I have to have my wits about me for work, I do a BPC every morning (fasting or otherwise, but no butter/dairy, just MCT oil). Then water.

Let me ask… Are you consuming ANY Diet Drinks? (Because my glucose meter showed they mess with my insulin levels. When you are OBESE, they have shown that LOOKING at a dessert can cause an insulin release! Any sweet taste in your mouth will cause an insulin release. IGNORE these KETO KIDS who show you “Look at my meter, no result”… Yeah, Well ONCE I got to 6-7 on my blood ketones, 75g of PURE Glucose for a GTT did NOT take me out of ketosis. And I STILL WOULD NOT TOUCH Diet Soda again!) Things change when you are deep in ketosis.

Tell me, how deep is your ketosis level? How is your morning Glucose/Ketones and GKI (learn to calculate this, (US Glucose/18)/Ketones or EuropeanGlucose/Ketons. Below 3 is therapeutic, but I like mine around 1.

Finally, stress and sleep. DUH. And hot weather. Stressful when you are overweight. Your body is trying to keep cool. It is sweating and fighting it. TRY FASTING. Cut the caffeine except in the AM. When I did that, and dropped the 2L of diet soda. I started sleeping SOOOO Much better. Felt less stressed, and my BP went down.

Curious. Where is your BP? (If you are not measuring these things, and tracking how many times you put food in your mouth, you are missing the point). I don’t want to sound bossy here, but here are the facts.

  1. Insulin is the problem
  2. EVERYTHING you eat outside of WATER/Black Coffee/Tea WILL generate an insulin response!
  3. Eating Pork Rinds as a SNACK. Bad Idea. When you are obese, your body assumes that food means sugar.
  4. Therefore, measure your Glucse/Ketones level, and LIMIT your eating windows to 60 minutes for a meal.
  5. use intermittent fasting to get down to 2 meals a day
  6. If you test your glucose in the AM it should be the highest of the day, on a fasting day for sure, but it should also PROVE You do not need breakfast.

Those things should help set you straight. If you are stressed, then practice mindfulness, mediation or relaxation. Stress is based on Perception. It sounds like you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself, or letting other people load you with pressure. I recommend learning to say no. Also, practice separating your SITUATION from your LIFE… Work will always be there tomorrow.

I truly hope something in here helps you…