Why not avocado?

#61

That thing is in avocado?

(Chris) #62

Avocado, coconut, many things yes.

(Robert C) #63

Yes let’s.
If you are turning in your carnivorian card then eating avocados is up to you.
Although I am not one, here’s what I think a carnivorian might argue – basically either a don’t know or a don’t need point of view:

“Don’t know” would be that you might think avocados are okay/good but you just haven’t found their problem (i.e. you haven’t found their defense mechanism yet).
Here’s a list of possibilities from a quick google search:


But, if you have done the n=1 and found they are good for you then the “don’t know” argument doesn’t really matter.

“Don’t need” would be the argument that everything you need can be found in a carnivorian diet. This could be true but, just as with vegetarians – it may be very difficult for formulate those nose-to-tail meals to truly get everything you need in today’s food environment.
Just like when vegetarians go to the supermarket and buy fruit that has been – over last few hundred years – engineered to be large super juicy and sweet (high carb). Then they juice it and hand their children caffeine-less soda pop thinking they are doing the right thing and wondering why their kid goes crazy for a while before crashing. In their head, they are following a healthy diet – which makes it impossible for them to actually see what they are doing (shoving many teaspoons of sugar into their child’s mouth every morning).
I suspect it is easy for carnivorians to do the same. We started butchering animals very differently in recent history – not using everything and cutting away (throwing away) a lot of the fat while also ignoring the internal organs (based on consumer demand I think). A carnivorian that keeps buying NY Strip steak but thinks they are good because they are staying within the bounds of what their diet is named is probably also not getting what they need in the long run.

I would keep going with this questioning route and titrate toward what is best for you.

(Karen) #65

Let’s not. Headed to the kitchen for an avocado.

K

(Robert C) #66

Another (yes, I know, non-avocado related) thing I’ll throw in here on the carnivore diet – I am very happy I did not run across it before I started keto. If I had, and I had become enamored with it before I started my whole nutrition journey – I would be in really bad shape. I was very lucky to find a very good holistic health practitioner – so good that I actually did (most of) what they suggested. One of the suggestions was to get an extensive blood test done (10 vials worth). What was discovered is that I had hemochromatosis (AKA “iron overload” – too much iron in my blood – by a factor of 10) which, if left untreated, can quietly cause liver damage, heart problems and diabetes. So, keto protein sources for me had to move toward eggs, chicken and limited pork – away from iron rich red meat. Carnivore diet for me would have meant an accelerated death.

Moral of the story – get your blood work done!

(TJ Borden) #67

I think it’s a case of you do you. If you want to eat avocados, eat avocados.

I call myself “mostly carnivore”, because although most days of the week I only eat animal products, I’ll still eat veggies occasionally.

I don’t do carnivore because I’m worried about toxins in veggies, I do it because I’m pretty lazy on tracking macros, and it makes it easy to not worry about going over when most of what I eat is fatty meat, eggs and cheese. That and I find it fun to be an anti-vegan.

Personally, I’m not a big fan of avocados. They’re okay, but on their own are kind of bland, and it seems like they only have about a 2 hour of window of time that they’re actually perfectly ripe before they go bad.

Sure they have fat, and that’s cool, but they’re still just another veggie, or a fruit, whatever.

(Sondra Rose) #68

Avocados are high in FODMAPS. I am FODMAPS-intolerant, so I avoided avocados even when Keto, since I could not digest them.

(Sondra Rose) #69

And here is a good reason to avoid for environmental health:

(KCKO, KCFO) #70

This made me laugh out loud. Love the concept. :deciduous_tree::bacon:

#71

Environmentalists got a problem with avocados? Cool! I will therefore double my avocado consumption.

Environmentalists rank down there with vegans in terms of people who attempt to induce guilt in others in a pathological desire to control them. For me, one of the benefits of Keto is the potential to offend both classes of twit.

(TJ Borden) #72

:rofl::rofl::rofl: you’re okay for a Brit

(karen) #73

Been an interesting discussion and I’m learning a few things, but I think if you really want to ask “Why” you need to ask people who are avoiding avocados, not those who are eating them. I have no ‘why’ for you, because I think avocados are perfectly wonderful. Tree bacon indeed! :grin:

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #74

Oh, and crime and slave like conditions.

Quote>This lucrative trade is increasingly controlled by a drug cartel known as the Caballeros Templarios (Knights Templar). So when you buy a Mexican avocado, a greedy share of revenue may well accrue to criminals.
…
The fact of the matter is that we know pitifully little about the environmental and working conditions of faceless people in faraway places who grow fruit for our tables, but I have seen enough of foreign fruit “farms” to suspect the worst. Fields of abysmally low-paid, often migrant workers who toil and live day-in-day-out in a trashed environment amid polluted water courses and pesticides; the latter decaying workers’ fingernails from dipping saplings into chemicals.

(KCKO, KCFO) #75

So you have been to California, I see.

(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #76

Do you have a thread on this data that most carnivores die of cancer when they are focused on muscle meat?

(Ron) #77

I can’t say about carnivores dying but here is an article about the considered risks.

(Bunny) #78

One conclusion being through out human history is that those who had to subsist out of survival exclusively on meat usually discarded the muscle meat?

Also dry cooking vs. boiling i.e. HCA’s

(Rob) #79

This article isn’t bad, but it’s major fault is that it accepts the presumption that the IARC/WHO research is true. Even accepting that, it rightly calls BS on the scare mongering that has developed around it since 2015, when the teaser was released (actual monograph only just released in 2018) and shows how marginal the evidence is and how marginal the additional risk is (if you even believe the highly manipulated facts).

But if you go one step back… you see that the basic research and the meta-analysis used to sprout this plant-based bullshit is highly suspect.

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2015/10/world-health-organisation-meat-cancer/

Zoe deconstructs the actual monograph this past April but it’s behind a paywall.

If you go back a step further to redefining the very basis of cancer and what really determines the risks, you get even further away from this BS which focuses only on one of many causes of cell mutation (everything in modernity seems to do this - air, water, sun, lifestyle, plastics, etc.) and focus on the metabolic causes impacting the mitochondria rather than the nucleus then the impact of bacon or red meat becomes even more benign.

If you believe this, then the key risk reducer is lowering the inflammation that causes a mutation to become a tumor. At which point, a bacon based diet is likely to do more to reduce cancer risk than it can possibly do to make it worse.

(Chris) #80

He is in the carnivore subforum. Where else would he find such people?

(TJ Borden) #81

I’ve read that too. Muscle meat went to the dogs since they’re designed to use protein for energy they way we’re designed to use fat.