Why not avocado?


Olives! Yes,they are very similiar to avocado.The other fruit you named are zero fat and higher carb than avocado,especially when you acount for nutrient density.If you ate isocaloric portion of avocado and fruits you named,you will see the other fruits are much higher carb.

You can say that doesnt matter becose you eat it for micro-nutrients.Its same result,iso micro nutrient portion would have far less carbs in avocado case than any other fruit.


Well, in the “post-postmodern” culture, identity & ideology are what drive mainstream media-influenced social psychology - both at offline social functions and in online social media! Even avocados can be quite controversial to some who think they have the right to police others - as do some adherents of CICO, for example (such as some of my own relatives who’ve gone on and off CICO wagons combined with SAD) as well as some ZC folks.

CICO and Zero-Carb and Veganism often are particular human ideologies. “Carnivore” is simply a classification term that comes from describing non-human mammals as well as humans who “mostly” eat flesh, based on studying how they live & survive, and the facts of life in what they leave behind. :poop: Carnivore animals in nature can be exclusively flesh-eating if the environment or season is such that they must be, but are generally not, because apparently variety is the spice of life, to some degree :wink: Or maybe it’s just neurologically FUN to nibble occasionally on new tastes or crunchy textures :star_struck:

Flesh-eating mammals such as canines and felines are well known to eat very small quantities of insects, berries, nuts, and grasses. Bears loooooove to feast on berries or honeycomb when the opportunity arises. My cats enjoy a good beetle or an olive or chunk of avocado for a treat every now and then :cat2:

Personal food culture on a food-as-medicine path of recomposition & health recovery has its seasons and learning experiences (and spices!) that are far more nuanced and meaningful than industrial foods consumer culture would have us believe in its steady stream of non-local foods and fast foods. Ever since I was in grammar school (the 1970s modern period lol) I’ve observed there’s a lot of short-term popularity when one tidily fits into the box of whatever is the socially accepted norm in certain circles.

Both Veganism and Zero-Carbism are reassuring to their adherents, perhaps due to the absolutism (without the relative angles) - reminiscent of how a religious affiliation can work for some to provide some meaning in the void of consumer culture that is often disconnected from spiritually nourishing things outside of entertainment & material acquisition.

But looking at actual traditional, land-based cultural traditions (food ways and oral histories) gives us BIG clues about our ancient ancestors, along with paleoanthrolopgy - and the huge diversity of food traditions according to the living land.

Seems to me that both Veganism and ZC consider their paths as connected to some “pure” traditional stories (as in, the actual Garden of Eden for some Vegans, and as in massively stereotyped invader-settler notions about Inuit peoples for some ZCs). Notions of food purity are also seen nowadays in the bizarrely privileged “Clean Food” ideology which when taken to the extreme is actually justifying a lot of eating disorders in some young followers. All in all, lots of privileged/“First World” problems in a world where at least a million people are starving, and countless urban people’s brains are malnourished/poisoned.

It helps me to focus on what I have in common with most folks who I interact with in a community setting. Vegans love my avocados, lol. And I love crispy fatty perfectly grilled or smoked meat nearly as much as any Zero Carber. But I draw the line when someone tries to shame me for my Avocado Love or Lamb Curry Love. :sparkling_heart: :avocado: :sheep: :sparkling_heart:

What’s true for me is that all “food” really is a baseline blessing and real food can really heal. I’m blessed - to be a fat-adapted fat burner, and to cultivate strong digestive enzymes and hormonal health with Ginger as my main ally. I know that humans generally learn through suffering rather than prevention and spiral dynamics systems theory - but I’m optimistic about food-as-medicine and lazy LCHF/keto.


(Troy Anthony) #43

Interesting idea and I’ve heard some lectures on this but I’m personally not convinced. In 20 years today’s superfoods will be blasted by some new industry and we will have new ones. I admit I don’t know for sure, there are many different opinions and not a ton of serious scientific studies. Any study that tries to isolate a specific food and measure its effect on the human body is so difficult, as we are all genetically different, eat different food in different combinations, etc. we also have lifestyle factors that can’t really be factored out in studies and really, there aren’t many studies done as nothing here is Pantentable and has huge financial gain. Vegans believe meat is poison, carnivores believe plants are poison, i just roll with not eating what I know is poison, fake food, chemicals, etc anything humans haven’t always eaten.

(Jason Jodway) #44

Fruits aren’t free of chemicals/molecules that may be causing the issues strict carnivores are aiming to avoid. There’s a host of possibilities there. So while some high fat, essentially no sugar fruits exist, they are still fundamentally breaking strict carnivory. And even some animal sourced foods are problematic too. As a carnivore you should still test yourself for dairy and egg sensitivities and meat allergies exist too.

If you want to be 99% carnivore and eat avocados as well and you feel great doing so, then by all means go for it. I really doubt the carnivore crowd is going to witch hunt you over that. But factually that isn’t strict carnivory.

By leaving avocados in, you confound the carnivore experience and thus if it is failing you haven’t cleanly tested it. That is all.

(Ron) #45

So say you. I tend to lean more to this way of thinking -


Its true there are some poisonous fruit,the theory is that only birds should be allowed to eat it becose they carry the seeds further away.The types of fruit humans eat have far less of the anti nutrients and natural pesticides that veggies have.

Phytic acid,oxalate,phytoestrogens… its not even close.Its evident and logical from evolitionary point of view that fruits want aninals to eat them,the last thing plant wants is to make its seed spreader unhealthy,evolution doesnt work that way.


The part about weird philosophy,I meant anti nutrients and toxins,not fiber.I am not fiber expert,my n=1 experience is that by not eating fiber,only thing that changed is that I gas less often and poop got smaller,constipation,not even once.

(Bev Anne Moynham) #48

Why do we feel the need to label everyone? At the moment I don’t eat much in the way of veggies – the odd time I may have some if I am eating out or on holidays. I usually avoid the nightshade family completely. However, I do eat avocados, olive oil and olives. I will probably also eat lowcarb nuts and seeds if they are around. I do what works for me at the moment. So what are you going to label me?


In my opinion labeling is not bad thing,infact,I think its beneficial.It makes it clear who is eating what,this is essential for gathering data so we can discover truth about health and nutrition.

There should be rules by which we decide what is what,I think someone who eats 95% meat and 5% avocado is not true carnivore.But its not keto either IMO,its avo carnivore :grin: While that term sounds ridiculous,its very accurate. I am ovo lacto avo choco carnivore,I eat dairy,eggs,meat,avocadoes and chocolate! Chaos and inconsistency is bad,order and clarity is good.

(Bev Anne Moynham) #50

I am definitely inconsistent – I don’t eat the same way every day – some days I eat all meat (including fat) and some days I eat avocados and olives and bacon and eggs. Some days I fast and once in a while, I have some broccoli and/or other lowcarb veggies. Also, I have an ounce of unsweetened chocolate almost every day that I am not fasting. I am in ketosis almost all the time. Labels don’t work for me because I would have to change my label every day. I don’t like being labelled anyway because I am me – not some label.

(Randy) #51

My approach is to find what works for me and not worry about what other people call it.

(bulkbiker) #52

and never to “cheat”… runs for cover!

(Randy) #53

Hahaha!!! Touché’!!! :grin: The thought crossed my mind as I typed that.

I guess we all have our “lines in the sand”.


I agree that we don’t have to ‘label’ our diets, but when there ARE labels, they exist to define a specific WOE. If a person chooses carnivore, then that means ‘animal foods only’ and excludes avocados. But no one is ‘required’ to eat carnivore, and a more eclectic WOE is one’s choice.

If I ate a steak daily, I would not consider myself vegetarian, and if I eat avocados, I would not consider myself carnivore. And I would not claim to be a ‘low carb’ eater if I was consuming 300g of carbs daily.

If you want to follow a specific ‘label,’ stop trying to change its parameters for yourself; be confident in your personal choices.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #55

Actually, the idea that you need to :poop: every day is kind of odd, too. Even though I manage it with pretty low fiber intake. I’m not carnivore. I’m in the hood, though.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #56


Labels are useful for other people to sort you. That’s fine. I’m a keto guy on my politics forum.

While my diet is ketogenic, it does not really resemble the Volek/Phinney or Fung protocols that much.

(Christopher Avery) #57

I ordered grass fed beef liver from Moink.com and ate 1 lb over 3 days last week. Each piece was about 3/8 inch thick. The best meal:

  1. Cook a slice or two of bacon in a cast iron skillet. Crumble it into pieces
  2. Sautée onions with the bacon in the bacon fat. Remove from skillet or pile on one side.
  3. Increase skillet temp (on my stove: from 3 to 4.5).
  4. Salt and pepper liver on each side. Add to skillet and cook for 1 minute per side (rare to medium rare).

Serve immediately with onions and bacon on top.


(Susan) #58

Maybe we are looking at nutrition with the wrong model? The medical model is about testing, labeling, definitive symptoms and treatments. Social sciences are more organic and fluid. Mental health is an example. What distinguishes one clinician from another is their combination of art and science. There’s still labels, such as this suggestion for gathering data and developing cohesive theories (truth is a slippery snake, imho) yet we are as individual as our fingerprints. While there are some broad strokes - sugar is bad, a balance of macronutrients is good - at the root our nutrition is truly a n=1 thing.

BTW…loving this discussion. I’m moving away from raw vegetables because of realizing my body struggles to break them down. Warm, cooked foods digest much more smoothly. except for avocados, love my avocados :sunglasses:


I feel like this thread has derailed.Lets get it back on track,lets talk about avocados aka tree bacon aka lard berry. :deciduous_tree: :bacon:

(Chris - carnivoremuscle.com) #60

This is it, right here. The only real way to know is to cut everything for at least 90 days and only then add back in.