What's the difference between loose skin from weight loss and just plain ole loose skin from being 'older'?


(Elaine) #1

Hi everybody!

Might be a silly question, but it’s been rollin in my head a while.

I’m at my normal weight, have never been insulin resistant.

I have the typical ole lady, extra skin on my biceps, stomach and face.
No amount of lifting weights will ever fill in this loose skin with muscle. It’s just plain ole loose skin from age, not from weight loss.

Question is: Is this loose skin different from the loose skin resulting from losing weight?

Is there a different way to approach engaging autophagy to help get rid of it when you’re underweight but doing keto?

I appreciate your thoughtful comments,

Ruby


(Diana ) #2

I read somewhere on this forum, I think, that after you lose the weight, some of the loose skin will recede in time. But that may be the case if you are 29, not 69 like I am.
However, I have noticed that as my face loses weight, the jowls and beginnings of a double chin have shrunk down.
This doesn’t answer your question, just wanted to commiserate with you.


(Deborah ) #3

Not a silly question at all, and I’m looking forward to responses.


(Bunny) #4

Some various videos to address your very specific questions:

  1. Tighten Loose Skin With Your Own Human Growth Hormone (HGH)
  1. Q&A WITH DR KEN BERRY Loose Skin what’s the fix?
  1. How To Fix Loose Skin from Weight Loss (:moneybag: What’s THIS gonna cost?)
  1. How to Prevent Sagging Skin with Losing Weight

(CharleyD) #5

I doubt it. Trust in the process. Go to sleep fasted, work out fasted if possible.

I’d recommend going to sleep a little hungry, but still take a bit of glycine or magnesium glycinate to stimulate collagen production overnight.

How do you feel about ribs? I love me some cartilage, too.


(KCKO, KCFO) #6

Megan has mentioned on a few broadcasts about how their patients don’t feel they need surgery after big losses. Dr. Fung’s practice that got him interested in all this is mostly over 50 year. olds. He is a kidney specialists and most of the clients are no really all that young.

Mine is better after 1.25 yrs of doing many different fasting protocols. While my skin is not exactly where I would like it to be it is soooo much better than I thought it would be after losing my weight. Bonus is no more of those awful skin tags, ugh, they are worse than flappy underarms in my book. So happy I don’t get those anymore.

You might want to read the blog over on Intensive Dietary Management, there is a lot on autophagy there. I found this bit from there very interesting:
While most people think growth is always good, the truth is that, in adults, growth is almost always bad. Cancer is too much growth. Alzheimer’s disease is the accumulation of too much junk protein (neurofibrillary tangles) in the brain. Heart attacks and strokes are caused by atheromatous plaques. These are excess accumulation of many things, but prominently, smooth muscle cells, connective tissues and degenerative materials. Yes. Too much growth of smooth muscle is instrumental in causing atherosclerosis that causes heart attacks. Polycystic diseases like kidneys and ovaries are too much growth. Obesity is too much growth.


(Bunny) #7

…and or bone broth on an empty stomach might help also!


(Diana ) #8

What are you attributing the disappearance of skin tags to? Fasting? Or the Keto WOE in general?


#9

Collagen deficiency is a huge factor in age-related loose skin - and it likely plays a role in cases of loose skin that doesn’t change after years.

Though industrial culture considers the human body’s collagen loss over time a normal part of ageing, I think it’s largely dietary. My impression is that elders from high-collagen consuming cultures with other favorable conditions (such as fasting and/or slow weight-bearing work which boosts HGH, not being smokers, not struggling with exposure to the elements due to homelessness or exposure to long-term war) age without nearly as much muscle loss and collagen loss as the average SAD person. And, that by doing certain rejuvenative practices (like tai chi, yoga, meditation) and eliminating junk food, one can gain many metabolic/HGH benefits even without collagen supplementation. Collagen + LCHF/keto just really helps timeless ageing!

Though I’d prefer to make bone broths my current lifestyle isn’t conducive to it - so I buy grassfed collagen powder online that is very economical compared to the rip-off tiny bottles of collagen capsules and the overpriced paleo brands. I add a scoopful of it to bouillon broths or just use it alone in hot water with spices & oil, and take it near berry consumption or a Vit. C capsule. Very tasty, esp during colder months. In warmer weather, I add collagen to smoothies about 2-3 times a week.

Ancestral food traditions contained plenty of regular collagen from long-cooked bone broths which were the basis for meals, and the scrapings of collagen from pelts which was in turn thrown into the broth. Also, being that Vitamin C is necessary for collagen uptake - the ancestral love of gathered & dried berries, pomegranate seeds (throughout north Africa, the mediterranean, and europe), and garlic certainly helped with that. Or, perhaps as some say, the LCHF/keto physiology has its own capacity for Vit. C production - which I have yet to learn about.

Re mitochondria & muscle usage, Doug McGuff MD in Body By Science discusses how typically runners favor working the legs only in quick movements that do not work the types of muscle fibers that enhance mitochondria. Thus we have the typical premature ageing faces of runners, furthered by excess exposure to sun in some cases.

Another thing is bags under the eyes - looks like simply loose skin, but is frequently a sign of longer term kidney overload or digestive toxification (often related to medication side-effects) which can be explored through labs done in integrative/functional medicine (and goes back to eastern medicine principles of biodynamic rejuvenation, and vitality/glandular health). Bags under the eyes/premature ageing can have different habitual causes (longterm alcoholism, imbalanced muscle usage, glandular stress, nutrient deficiencies from longterm veganism, excess sleep deprivation over years, and/or frequent flying exposures to atmospheric radiation) - it’s something more than merely a little age-related loose skin. But it’s dismissed as merely ‘genetic’ which I find strange - as members of one bio family can age very differently according to different factors.

Biological transformation through dietary healing is real though, so, I would think that collagen supplementation along with LCHF/keto can go very far at cellular rejuvenation. The skin replaces itself cellularly every 7 years according to western industrial medicine - but that definition isn’t specialized related to dietary practices or whether one does fasting. I’d think the LCHF/keto way of life as well as IF and EF speeds rejuvenation.

Dr. FUNg has pointed out that EF for 3 days reaps the full benefits of autophagy and fasting longer than that isn’t necessary if you’re doing it only for autophagy. It’s interesting that yearly autophagic short water fasts are a part of many traditional cultures indigenous and aboriginal, as well as in the modern orthodox religions of the mediterranean, european, and south asian cultures - yet got virtually eliminated by the British-American industrial foods TV culture.


(KCKO, KCFO) #10

I think it is the combination. I know both have helped me deal with insulin resistance.


(Robert C) #11

I am not a doctor. This is not medical advice and I have not done this. I do not know if it would work. It probably would not be a good idea for someone that has had weight problems in the past or for a person that thinks it may harm their heart. But…

Just an idea - no evidence this would reduce loose skin but, gain 10 pounds and water only fast it off - and do it 3 or 4 times with a few months in between each go-round.

I think it is safe - lots of dieters lose 10 pounds and gain it back (over and over again for decades).

While gaining, the advantage you (might) have is that you already have the loose skin - your body might just store the extra 10 pounds as fat. Why would it make extra skin if your skin is loose and not stretching.

While losing, autophagy kicks in and hacks away at everything (cells) it sees as weak and old (I don’t know a better way to say that). During the time it takes to lose the 10 pounds (a few 5-day water fasts) you would be an autophagy machine. Hopefully some of your excess skin would be viewed as old and unnecessary and autophagy’d out of existance (as well, there may be some cancer benefits from all of the good things I regularly read about autophagy).


(Elaine) #12

Thank you all for the responses!

I’m familiar with Jason Fung’s yt and articles on IF. I was quite surprised to realize (according to his protocol) I’ve been doing IF for prolly 10 years. I eat when I’m hungry and don’t when I’m not. I rarely eat breakfast, and usually have one meal a day. I would think autography would be hard at work behind the scenes, but am not too sure. This is why I’m wondering if the loose skin that results from weight loss is different from ole age skin laxity.

I take a collagen protein supplement, go to the gym. There isn’t enough skin to justify any type of surgery. Just wish it would go away.

Thank you all! Good luck in all your healthy endeavors!

Ruby


(CharleyD) #13


(Elaine) #14

Thank you! Encouraging info!


(Bunny) #15

Mmm I see “tripe” my other favorite besides tongue, lips and brain…lol

Like to see a lot of cartilage on the bones when I get bones to make bone broth!


(CharleyD) #16

I’ve grown fond of, and can recommend generally, Vietnamese Pho, with beef, hold the noodles. At least the beef Pho around here in the South will include tripe!


#17

It’s the EF/3 days that delivers the most autophagy benefits though, and requires water-only - from what Dr. Fung’s said/written.


(She had one feck to give and that feck is gone.) #18

I[quote=“atomicspacebunny, post:4, topic:61287”]
Moreover, following a period of resistance exercise training in older adults, we found that age-associated transcriptome expression changes were reversed, implying a restoration of a youthful expression profile.”
[/quote]

Ooh…why yes, I do lift weights. I also prefer dim lighting :tipping_hand_woman:‍♀


(Bunny) #19

Bone Broth: A Broth that Can Do More than Cure A Cold – IDM VI - Dr. Fungs recipe


(Diana ) #20

Interesting article. Is it by Weston Price?