So a bit of backstory - I’m currently on a keto diet and eating about 1000kcal a day (bar the weekend, had a takeaway and feel awful!). I’m currently doing 16:8 fasting and have done a 5 day water fast about a year ago.
I’m wanting to do a 3-7 day fast tomorrow (I’ll see how I feel), and I’m wondering what to include. I definitely need to maintain my electrolytes because I’m prone to getting dehydrated, faint and cramping legs. What’s the best way to do this? Also the tastiest? And is it a definite no to have cream in my coffee? I think it would help me keep going for longer and also I’ve heard fat is ok for autophagy. Same with milk in tea but not sure about that one. So any advice would be greatly appreciated! I want to have an exact list of rules so I don’t go OTT! Thanks x
I’m not starving myself, I’m just hoping to do a fast I think it’s only called starving when the body has no reserves left, mine has plenty!
I’m not only doing it for weight loss, but also for the health benefits from autophagy. From what I’ve read, your BMR actually goes up slightly during a fast, I can’t remember why (I’ve read a lot of stuff )
Sorry I thought I’d posted this in the fasting forum, is this more for intermittent fasting? I was sure I’d read posts from people experienced in this stuff but it might have been somewhere else
Hi Sophie,
I think what @Anniegirl9 was referring to is the 1000cals per day normally.
There is nothing wrong with fasting, in fact it is very beneficial, but when you are eating you should not be restricting as it will lower your BMR and become a cycle of needing fewer and fewer calories.
Here is a simplified version of how I understand it:
Eat a small amount - body says hmm there isn’t much fuel here, so I’ll have to cut back on some processes to only burn what I have. Some body fat can be accessed but not that much as insulin is still present from what is being eaten.
Fasting - body says no food, ok I’ll forget about digestion for now then and get on with other things. Body fat can be accessed for fuel as no insulin is present to inhibit that process.
There is proper science behind that, but that is my basic understanding.
To answer your original question, there is a monthly thread in the fasting area of this forum for general fasting support. There is also a monthly ‘Zornfast’ where a number of people all fast together for 3-4 days and support each other.
The general view is that coffee is ok, cream is dependent on your reasons for fasting. For weight loss a small amount of cream is probably ok as it is a low insulin producing food. For Autophargy it is a little known thing and a relatively recent discovery in its own right, so I think it is a suck it and see thing.
I find that water/salt only for the first 3 days is easiest (some days are tougher than others!) and I have a bit of cream in my morning coffee on the day I plan to break the fast to start my body thinking about digestion.
I think you’ll be surprised that you don’t need a bit of cream to keep you going, in fact it may be easier without it unless you have very little left to lose.
@Anniegirl9 is wondering why you’re only eating 1000 calories per day. That’s really low!
Fasting plus feasting (mixing it up) is terrific for keeping a decent metabolic rate. Fasting plus calorie restriction, however, is terrible for your metabolic rate!
Yes, lots folks here fast - both IF and EF - and you’ll find plenty of fasting posts and threads on the forum. There’s a ton of debate about autophagy and what stops it. The general recommendation - if autophagy is what you’re after - is no fat at all, and some folks even say no coffee. But fat will not spike your insulin levels, so from a insulin sensitivity/metabolic perspective, fat in your coffee is fine and might facilitate the fast.
It’s usually much much easier to fast if you’re already fat-adapted. How long have you been keto?
Ah I see, thanks for letting me know! I was very confused!
The reason for that is that I’ve been loosely following the blood sugar diet. I say loosely because I’ve reduced the carbs and I usually go over the 800kcal, probably averaging 1000kcal. The reason Michael Mosley chose 800kcal is because of the Newcastle study on reversing diabetes. I believe the reasons are that recent research has shown VLCDs actually don’t slow down your metabolism if done for a specific amount of time. Also I think they found out that losing weight quickly reduces the fat in your pancreas hence why it can reverse diabetes. I don’t have diabetes yet but I have been diagnosed with PCOS which is also caused by insulin resistance, hence me following this diet.
Also - probably due to the PCOS and under active thyroid - I have ended up in the past naturally following a diet of low carb and 800kcal as it’s the sweet spot for weight loss. Unfortunately, even with very low carbs I still find it very hard to lose weight so I do need to restrict my calories as well.
I’m not sure if this is still quite a controversial topic, I suppose even scientists still have contrasting opinions on all of this.
It is certainly my long term goal to reverse diet up to maintenance calories, when I’ve lost some weight.
Also, thanks for the fasting advice! I did find it quite easy when I did a water fast last year, but I just can’t get in the right head space at the moment and I really need to focus on electrolytes as I get such bad cramp do you have any ideas for that? The main reason for the cream in my coffee is just to keep me going! I might work up on my intermittent fasts for a bit first, I’m very comfortable with 16:8 and even 23:1 but I’m struggling with days at the moment.
Sorry there’s a lot of rambling, I don’t expect you to read it all!
I’ve mostly explained in the last post but I do agree with your fasting & feasting comment. The problem is that I have binge eating problems (big time) and with me it’s consistence that’s important. Maintenance wise, that is what I’d be aiming for.
I’m fairly sure I am fat-adapted. I’ve been on keto for about 4 weeks after a long time off it, but I have found it easier to get into ketosis and to also get the fat-adapted feelings (if that makes sense ) this time! I don’t know if my body just stayed fat adapted the whole time but didn’t use it? I’m not sure! I have a blood ketone monitor but I’ve run out of strips, the last time I tested was about a week into the new diet and my blood ketones were 0.7.
The science is rapidly developing on fasting and autophagy. Proponents of this school of thought, include Dr Seyfried, author of Cancer as a Metabolic Disease. If the primary goal of the block fast is autophagy, mitochondrial repair, slowing telomere degradation, etc, then fasting should be water only.
I did read it all!
There is lots of debate about the need to restrict calories, and a search on this forum will give you plenty of reading material. The general view amongst the non-restricters (including me) is that the benefit of Keto is to help repair the metabolism by improving the satiety signals and so whilst it is very east to over eat on high carb/sugar diets, it is much easier to listen to your body on the keto diet. So ir you are hungry, eat…and equally if you are really not, don’t! one issue is that people who have a history of calorie restriction may need to get their eating up to a normal level before then being able to listen to the signals properly. As I say there is a lot on this forum about that and I won’t rehash it all here, but I would recommend a search and deciding for yourself.
Electrolytes are definitely important in normal eating and fasting. There is a recipe for ketoaid that can help,
Also, I have taken to carrying around a little pot of sea salt that I put a pinch under my tongue for a few mins when fasting to help keep my salt levels up. I also suffer from bad night leg cramps and have to take magnesium and potassium supplements to keep those at bay. This is worse at the moment as it is very warm here in the UK and I think I’m also allowing myself to become dehydrated, which I need to fix!
In terms of jumping in - I would pick a day, have a big evening meal - until you are stuffed! Then start the fast. Decide to go to the next evening (23 hours which you have done before), then distract yourself and avoid dinner. Then when you wake up you are magically at 36 hours give or take. Then it is a question of just pushing on. Day 2 is the worst for me, and usually I wake up on day 3 in a much better frame of mind. I amazed myself when I did my first Zornfast - everyone said that once you get into it it is surprisingly easy. I didn’t believe them, but they were right!
Hopefully that gets you started.
Edited to say: Don’t fix on a time for the fast and then feel that you’ve failed if you don’t meet it. Treat it as a learning journey. 1 hour is better than no hours, 1 day is better than 1 hour, and so on…to a point!
bacon!
I think it’s only called starving when the body has no reserves left, mine has plenty!
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