What are good non-oil vegan high fat sources?


(Karim Wassef) #1

I’ll start by openly admitting that I am, and always will be a carnivore. However, for certain periods of time, I abstain from animal meat and become vegan. I find this resets both my appreciation and physiological growth response to eating meat. So even my veganism is in the greater service of my carnivore nature.

Last year was the first time I did this with keto and it was awful. Vegetables generally give me digestive distress and I can measure it on my glucose and ketone readings.

So I decided to extend my fasting to cover as much of this 55 day window as possible. I’m breaking it up into 4 extended 12 day fasts with 4 x 2 day vegan refeed windows between them.

I don’t really need to lose weight any more so I’m doing this for mental clarity and longevity through autophagy.

I want my refeeds to be very high in fat but not oily. I will use extra virgin olive oil (dressing) & cacao butter (for dessert) but I want to capture other real low carb highest fat options that aren’t oils or butters. Here’s my list and I’m looking for more:

Coconut cream
Avocado
Olives
Nori seaweed
Mushrooms (for fiber)
Raw cacao powder
Macadamia
Pecans
Brazil nuts (minimal)
Walnuts (minimal)
Almonds (minimal)
Tahini
Chia seed
Hemp seed (minimal)
Flax seed (minimal)
Sunflower seeds (minimal)

I’m not a big fan of seeds in general and I need to keep nuts in moderation since I have a weakness that causes me to overindulge. High fat is required, high fiber is ok, low carb is a must - that’s the target. I consider fiber to be a fat source since it’s converted to short chain fatty acids in the gut.

Am I missing anything? I need high enough fats for two refeeds in OMAD to sustain me for the next 12 days… so 4000-5000 calories from vegan fats.


(Omar) #2

nuts are too carby
if you eat too much flaxseed and chia seeds you will get pregnant because they have too much phytoestrogen which is very simular to the estrogen hormone.

I like your idea of having leafy green windows in the middle of carnivore diet.


(Karim Wassef) #3

Agreed. That’s why soy isn’t on the list either… phytoestrogens are bad news for guys.

See anything else I can add? The mushrooms and olives are really only on the list because I think the fiber and protein with minimal carbs makes them good gut bacteria foods to make the SCT fat. I’m also planning on using MCT in my coffee.


#4

Coconut yoghurt (non dairy)
Pepitas (pumpkin seeds). Good roasted for a snack.


(Karim Wassef) #5

Thanks.

How about soaking fibrous veggies in fat to get them to be fattier… like soaking asparagus or mushrooms in a brine to dehydrate them and then soak them (or vacuum seal) in EVOO and then grill? Can that “fatten” them up?


(Full Metal KETO AF) #6

Roasting veggies with EVOO and salt.
Stir fried cauliflower rice, zucchini noodles sautéd in EVOO


(Karim Wassef) #7

Thanks. I am planing on using EVOO but I’d like to have the fat infused not just on the surface… turning asparagus like avocado.

Any other fatty vegan foods missed?


#8

It’s mostly myth that phytoestrogens are unhealthy for men. They are plant estrogens which are biochemically different than human or animal estrogens. There’s actually more conclusive evidence that animal estrogens found in milk and dairy have more adverse effects than plant estrogens. Honestly, eat the plants, they add variety to your Keto Diet and the amount of phytoestrogens you will consume will have little to no affect on your hormones. You won’t get testicular cancer or grow breasts. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/phytoestrogens-and-men#section3


#9

This isn’t accurate. You might “get pregnant” from the bloating but phytoestrogen danger is mostly a myth based on a couple of flawed studies in the 90s. I’m sure if you ate way too much of anything it would cause issues but this is something you don’t need to be too afraid of


(Karim Wassef) #10

The chemicals are close enough that they do drive estrogen-like effects in humans. There are enough opposing research results that is rather err on the side of caution. I’m not a fan of plants in general and I treat them all with suspicion. They don’t want to be eaten and they cause chemical distress unless we can neutralize their hostile chemistry.

I also expect that the soy industry is going to fight the findings since it’s a massive loss to their bottom line. So directly or indirectly sponsored research is especially suspect.


(Karim Wassef) #11


if it has an effect on women’s estrogen, it would also effect men’s estrogen levels

There are differences between alpha and beta estrogen receptors - there’s more science to unpack here.

This one is my favorite - even goes into glycosides and fermentation

Also like Thomas’s assessment - isoflavones in excess


(Karim Wassef) #12

for those who want the opposite viewpoint (that I don’t buy):


I’ll add that asians who eat soy ferment it.

Dr. Berg differentiates good and bad estrogen:


(Karim Wassef) #13

I’m taking flax seed off the list based on this… sad to give up the omega 3s but I’m 45 and I need to be conservative when it comes to things that could have hormonal effects:

New List:

Coconut cream
Avocado
Olives
Nori seaweed
Mushrooms (for fiber)
Raw cacao powder
Macadamia
Pecans
Brazil nuts (minimal)
Walnuts (minimal)
Almonds (minimal)
Tahini
Chia seed
Hemp seed (minimal)
Sunflower seeds (minimal)
Pumpkin seeds (minimal)


(Todd Allen) #14

Cocoa butter and/or high quality dark chocolate made with cocoa butter.

Hearts of palm for a moderately high fat vegetable.

Some consider vinegar/acetic acid a short chain fatty acid. Ferments such as sauerkraut are going to be a little lower in sugars and starches and somewhat higher in fatty acids.

And last but not least, I’m fond of peanuts in moderation despite the risk of over indulging and getting too many carbs.


(Karim Wassef) #15

I was keeping fats and oils off the list, but for completion - New List:

ACV
Coffee
Coconut cream
EVOO
Avocado oil
Coconut oil
Avocado
Olives
Nori seaweed
Mushrooms (for fiber)
Raw cacao powder
Cacao butter
Macadamia
Pecans
Brazil nuts (minimal)
Walnuts (minimal)
Almonds (minimal)
Tahini
Chia seed
Hemp seed (minimal)
Sunflower seeds (minimal)
Pumpkin seeds (minimal)
Saurkraut
Pickles
Ginger

I’m not going for the peanuts or heart of palm - feels too carby for me.


Been looking up fatty veg - I have a daughter with an aversion to avocado
It’s Keto 80% fat? What fat choices do you enjoy?
(Bunny) #16

Phytoestrogens are way better for both men and women and they block the bad xenoestrogens and additionally women have more estrogen receptors than men so your not going to be “pregnant” with estrogen like a women… lol :rofl::joy::rofl::joy::rofl:


(Karim Wassef) #17

not convinced in the science that phytoestrogens are good. It may be that genetic differences make some people more susceptible (good or bad), but I’m not going to risk it

Dr. Rhonda Patrick goes into examples of how some of these differences can really drive different outcomes


#18

I meant to put bloating from the fiber :grimacing:


(Bunny) #19

I love Rhonda (I’m her number one fan and member of her website) but I think she goes a little too deep (a treasure trove of information) into things without considering more simplistic factors sometimes?

I found some her findings at odds with other scientists like e.g. Chris Masterjohn conflicting?


(Bunny) #20

Regular soy sauce vs. Tamari vs. HVP soy sauce:

  1. Regular Soy Sauce (for cooking)
    Made with about half soybeans and half wheat. Fermented. Aromatic. Sharper taste than Tamari due to the difference of raw materials and a stronger alcoholic fermentation. Its flavor flashes off when cooked under high temperature. Categorized as “koikuchi” soy sauce in Japan.
  1. Tamari Soy Sauce (real soy sauce for eating)
    Made with all soybeans, or primarily soybeans with just a small amount of wheat added. Fermented. Richer, milder taste than regular soy sauce due to higher concentration of soy protein. Holds its flavor after cooked under high temperature. Categorized as “tamari” soy sauce in Japan.
  1. HVP Soy Sauce (THE BAD STUFF Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein soy sauce) Made with chemically processed hydrolyzed vegetable protein. Not fermented. Requires just a few days to produce. Harsh and artificial flavor. Acrid aroma. Bitter aftertaste.

A Woman Drank 1 Liter Soy Sauce Colon Cleanse In 2 Hours. This Is What Happened To Her Brain.

Related:

[1] “…Soy gets a bad rap for its phytoestrogens, which bind to your estrogen receptors and mimic human estrogen. The anti-phytoestrogen sentiment …” Soy – The Good, The Bad, and The Fermented