Very interesting N=1 trying to test that Sat Fat causes weight loss


(Bob M) #43

I have been testing eating cocoa butter. How much do I eat? Some. I have not been weighing it. This weekend, I’m going to create a fat with butter, cocoa butter, and shea butter. I’ll put it in molds and will try to test how much I’m eating.

My experiences so far. After eating my “morning” meal (I usually eat two meals a day), I usually am not hungry for a while. By adding cocoa butter to this, I’d characterize it as follows. If 10 = you could hold a gun to my head, and I wouldn’t eat any more; and 1 = I’m very hungry, I’d say my normal morning meal is maybe a 6-7. With cocoa butter added, it’s 9-10.

Put it this way, I was hungry at 10 am. I had 4 eggs, ham, blue and goat cheese. I had a small amount of chicken stock and a good handful of cocoa. It’s 4:14 pm (16:14 for those of you using 24 hour clocks), and I am not hungry at all. Zero hunger. None. It’s still an 8 or 9. I have no desire to eat at all. And it’s been 6 hours since I ate. I might not eat again today, though likely will (due to the family having dinner).

Of course, I cannot say it’s all due to cocoa butter’s stearic acid content. It could be calories or something else. But when I was on high fat, I could eat avocados, olive oil, and other high fat products, and still be hungry. With cocoa butter, I’m not. At all.


(Central Florida Bob ) #44

As a corollary experiment, I’m trying to increase saturated fat. Those who have tried will understand when I say it’s not as straightforward as you may think. The exact makeup of the fats we eat isn’t always easy to find.

This is based on your reports, the original link to Fire In a Bottle, and just the observation that saturated fats seem uniquely satiating.

More cheese, more butter, less mayo (homemade - olive and avocado oils), fewer nuts.


(Bob M) #45

Bob, I think it’s a good idea. I’ve known about this theory that saturated fat causes fat cells to be insulin resistant (edited: incorrectly put “sensitive” here) for a long time now. I just didn’t know how to test it.

You are totally correct. Each “fat” is actually many different fats. And “saturated fat” itself isn’t monolithic. For instance, stearic acid seems to have this effect, but the effect for palmitic acid is less, even though they are both saturated fats. Yet another consequence of this idiotic demonization of “saturated” fat.

This is why I’m going to try shea butter, as it’s high in stearic acid but lower in palmitic acid. If you like books on science, this is a good book in this area:

Well, I did not eat again yesterday. The thing is that every time I have cocoa butter with my lunch, I don’t want to eat. I do eat because the family is having dinner. Last night, I picked up Daughter #1 at 8:30pm, and we did not get home until 8:45pm, so I did not eat. Today, I’ll likely be full again, but I’ll eat dinner because I pick up both kids, and we go home at 7:30pm, where the wife will have dinner ready.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #46

@ctviggen Bob, you’ve aroused my interest. Bought some cocoa butter today. I may also try sheas butter as well when I can find some. Thanks.


(Kristen Ann) #47

This is an interesting experiment. Just curious why cocoa and shea butter over beef fat? I eat cocoa butter in my BPC, and I don’t notice a big difference in satiety. But it’s also melted so maybe that causes a differnece. However, eating beef fat does huge things for me… Satiety, energy, mental clarity, reduced inflammation (possibly?). But I often gag trying to get it down…


(Edith) #48

Just wait. When you’ve been keto long enough you will wish your meat had more fat. :grinning:


(Kristen Ann) #49

Ugh I don’t know. I’ve been keto a year. I’ve tried drowning the beef fat in hot sauce to mask the taste. I tried squishing it between two pieces of cheese to mask the texture. I’ve tried finely chopping it up and adding it in other foods/meats but I’m still struggling. Today I cut raw beef fat into swallow-able sized pieces, but I had to drink so much water to get all of the pieces down that I thought the water was going to come right back up.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #50

Just curious. Are you carnivore or trying to become so? If not, there are lots of good saturated fats other than cubed beef fat. Why are you trying to force yourself to eat it?


(Kristen Ann) #51

No I’m not carnivore. I have serious health issues and notice when I eat beef fat, my symptoms improve. I think it’s the stearic acid, but I don’t get the same effect from eating cocoa butter.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #52

Maybe you’re way ahead, but possibly may find this helpful:

fat.pdf (66.8 KB)

I notice that lard is very similar in fat composition to beef tallow. It has more stearic acid than tallow, if you think that’s the significant ingredient. Lard also has more linoleic and less palmitoleic acids. You may find lard more palatable than tallow.


(Kristen Ann) #53

Thanks for your help. I do have pork fat in my freezer but I’m trying to avoid Omeg-6 f.a. because I think they cause me problems :confused:


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #54

Curious, unless I’m misunderstanding it, according to the chart I attached, the omega 6/3 ratio of tallow and lard is the same: 18:2 n-6. Although lard contains more overall, but still pretty low.

Coconut oil is the same ratio as tallow with the same total amount, although much lower in stearic acid.


(Kristen Ann) #55

I could be reading your chart wrong but pork fat is 11% linoleic acid and in beef fat is 2%. In comparing an ounce of beef fat to pork fat, pork has 3x’s more. But you could be right that overall, that is low. I have no idea how much is too much for me, but I know when I eat chicken (especially the skin) and pork shoulder my symptoms get worse. That said, I eat bacon in small quantities and don’t seem to have issues with that.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #56

Yes, you are correct: 11% vs 2%. However, since the stearic acid content of lard is 1 1/2 times that of tallow, you could eat less lard to get the same amount of stearic acid without consuming quite so much more linoleic acid. If you can eat bacon with no ill effects, I suspect the same for lard since it’s the same fat. Don’t know about pork shoulder unless it’s the protein that causes you a problem.


(Kel Ta) #57

Um- no Pork fat especially in the US is extremely high in PUFA- avoid it if you are trying the stearic acid experiment. https://fireinabottle.net/polyunsaturated-fat-pufa-in-pork-and-chicken/


(Kristen Ann) #58

So if you do the math: you would eat ~80% the amount of pork fat as you would beef to get the same stearic acid content. That would still be 2.6 x’s the amount of linoleic acid as beef fat.

But you could be right that I have an issue with the protein and not the fat. I just can’t figure out what that amino acid would be…


#59

Anyone have updates?

I’m interested in this . . . but not interested enough to do any serious measuring and calculating. I have backed off the bacon and using bacon fat for cooking, and started using more butter instead.

I think only dairy has more saturated fat than other types of fat, which makes me happy. So many people suggest giving up dairy because of inflammation or other reasons. I’ve tried a few times (though admittedly no more than a month at a time), any never noticed any difference, so I always went back to dairy.


(Kristen Ann) #60

Not all saturated fat is created equal. Beef suet and cocoa butter have more stearic acid (good sat fat) than palmitic acid (not good). I don’t believe dairy has the same ratio.

I don’t have any updates, but I’ve been increasing stearic acid consumption for health reasons not weight loss. I’ve been consistently losing weight the last 4 weeks or so, so I can’t tell if it’s helping in that regard. I do see an improvement in health (energy, mental clarity, pain) with eating beef fat.


(Jeff Henderson) #61

After coming off 3 or 4 days of Christmas carbs and up some pounds also from (vacation a week before didn’t help) I’ve started to get back to low carb and I’ve been having two Cacao and butter coffees during the day. I plan on starting the group fast in a couple days just not sure if I should continue the Cacao butter coffee every day or just during feasting days. Appreciate anyone’s opinion.


(PJ) #62

Alright.

  1. I use cocoa butter in fat bombs sometimes. They are more appetite killing than the versions I make without them. I’m not looking at the recipe but basically: toss CB and coconut oil into a small pot and melt it on low-med heat. Add a mix of lemon and lime juice, a no-carb sweetener (I found that swerve powdered worked well), and a little bit of things like dried minced orange peel, lemon peel, and dried minced kafir lime leaves, those three things do a lot for the flavor in the end. Mix that stuff in the melted oils, and then pour it into silicone pan molds. The best size for me is a fairly thin little flat disk. Ideally make it fit in your mouth but not be too thick. Chill. Keep in freezer. Not too long, they freezerburn.

  2. Cocoa butter is really hard but it melts very fast.

  3. I have a hard time eating enough calories most the time so I have a lot of experimentation in eating a lot of added fats (as I am not a big meat-fat fan) and satiation. When I eat fats like store mayo (soybean oil mostly), with cheese and garlic, I can eat probably 4000 calories a day if I wanted. When I eat fats dominantly just cheese and a little bit of other things like pepperoni, I can eat about 2200-2500 calories a day. If I am eating cocoa butter based fat bombs, I have a hard time eating enough, even adding them to other high cal foods. Often I plan them to “fill in” my macros, and end up eating a couple and I’m just too damn full to eat the rest of them, and they melt next to me while I don’t eat them, time out and blow the macro number for the day.

All this to say that it’s an uncontrolled retroactive non-experiment, but I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that for me at least, cocoa butter is more satiating than coconut oil + cream cheese which is what I used at first; and more than CO+CC+small amount of butter which I used next; and definitely more than mostly PUFA+cheese.

So that blogger Brad is selling stearic acid you know. I think 2/1 is the avail date. $12 for 2# I think it was.

I have some cocoa butter. I am hoping, though, to afford some beef tallow before long, and make a point of using that more often.

I’m thinking maybe I could try coffee with cocoa butter, cacoa, sweetener and heavy cream, as a morning dessert (the only way I like coffee, and usually cold, but that won’t work with cocoa butter I don’t think!), and see what that does for appetite just out of curiosity.