VEG Question

[Daniel_the_maniel]

When im told to eat 7 cups of veg a day for a healthy liver, and i primarily eat spinach, does this mean 7 cups raw or cooked?

[Dread1840]

You don’t need 7 cups of vegetables for a healthy liver.

[Baytowvin]

Absolutely has to be cooked volume of spinach. In raw spinach the conversion is more like 13 lbs.

I’m kidding. Like @Dread1840 said. You don’t need veggies. For a while, I went without eating any, other than garlic, and herbs for flavor.

Now, I’ll occasionally have a few because my wife started keto and isn’t ready to make the transition to carnivore. But now whenever I do, I feel guilty. I hate eating my foods food, I don’t want my food to starve, I want my food to get fat…deliciously fat.

[Daniel_the_maniel]

Thanks for the advice.
If a diet calls for 1 cup of veg does it mean raw or cooked is the question.

I feel that veg is important for much more than just my liver. I plan on eating it a lot, which i have been.

My blood keton levels are 1.8

[Shortstuff]

I would measure it raw but really, you don’t need that much and if you do want to eat that much veg, best to get some variety rather than all spinach.

Are you following Dr Berg’s idea? I tried that for a few weeks but ended up with much lower ketones and a thicker waist measurement

[Daniel_the_maniel]

Dr. Berg and others. I have T2D which means i have a higher risk, and i show some symtoms.

Aside from carb and sugar levels in veg, what else is there for drawbacks?

[Jean_Taylor]

Individual sensitivities as far as I know. The idea is that plants have evolved to contain toxins as their only defense against predators and some people are more sensitive to those toxins than others hence the carnivore thing, or at least that’s my understanding. I have only looked briefly at it.

[Shortstuff]

With spinach, and other dark leafy greens, I would worry about the oxalates and the potential issues caused by them, but generally, if you’re going to have veg, especially a lot of it, you’d get a wider range of nutrients by having variety.

[Capnbob]

If a diet calls for 1 cup of veg does it mean raw or cooked is the question.

If you are following some-one elses plan, then they’d better give you more specific advice that just X cups since each vegetable is different.

Things that shrink significantly under cooking are obviously very different to things that stay the same. The other thing to consider is the unit of consumption vs. the volume. A cup of broccoli florets will have far less in a cup (measure of volume) than more finely chopped broccoli. The tracking apps usually have all this data. Obvious examples - peas and corn (not keto) are basically the same volume raw or cooked and aren’t usually any coarser or finer than average. Cabbage shrinks down at least by a factor of 3 from what goes into a pot. Mushrooms chopped are probably 50% more in a cup than whole mushrooms. You get the picture.
If you ate 7 cups of cooked spinach (which is more like 7:1 raw to cooked volume) you’d probably gag and go over your net carbs. 7 cups of raw (not compressed) would be a big salad or 2 or a nice side when cooked.

So if I was looking for 7 cups (and I definitely would not be), I would

1. choose things that shrink when cooked or eat raw in fluffy salads
2. measure things raw since that would generally mean a lot less when cooked.
3. Not attempt 7 cups if I only wanted veggies that don’t shrink e.g. brussels sprouts

As @Jean_Taylor and others have said, you might want to research plant toxins (the main one is Lectin - not to be confused with leptin). This is a good thread to start…

Lectins - The Plant Paradox

I have been looking for a way to take my keto diet to the next level for awhile now. I found the Plant Paradox concept to be very interesting and have decided to try it out. Since I am fairly strict keto already there really aren’t many more changes I need to make anyway so I figured give it a few months and see what happens. My question is: who else has researched/experimented with limiting dietary lectins? Thoughts? What other resources can you point me towards. I understand that some people…

Lots of debate, definitely an n=1 testing situation as to your sensitivity.

Good luck with your keto journey!! KCKO.

[CandyLindTX]

Aside from carb and sugar levels in veg, what else is there for drawbacks?

You can read more about veggies & whether we really need them by checking out Dr Georgia Ede’s blog. Since you’re pretty new to keto, I’d be careful about going over 20 grams until you are sure you’re fully fat adapted (not just in ketosis). Then you can gradually add more carbs to see how much your activity/life style can tolerate without falling out of ketosis.

[OldDoug]

Once in a while I eat the hell out of spinach. Get a bag from the store, along with another of other ‘salad mix’ type stuff, mix half of one with half of the other in a big-ass bowl, put some dressing on that bad boy and chow down.

Not in any way saying we have to have it, and I rarely eat it, just my circumstances. But Spinach does have a hellaciously good hit of vitamins, minerals and antioxidants. One could do worse.

[Keto6468]

I rather buy into the veg. For health. Measure raw. Some get kidney stones from oxylates. Some don’t. Mix up you veg. #2 May improve as well, and lots of vitamins. Just my n=1 preference.

K

[CandyLindTX]

I used to be a “salad every day” kind of gal - now I’m more of an occasional salad eater.

(too much time on my hands today! LOL)

[OldDoug]

Ha! Candy, indeed.

(Reminds me of my cereal bowl when I was a teenager. Box says “16 servings”… Yeah, right. 1 or 2. My poor parents - 5 kids… As an adult, I see what food can cost. How in the heck do families do it, now? Cheese, milk, meat, so many things have really gone up in price just these last few years… Can’t remember the last time I bought a box of cereal, though - early 2000s or 1990s.)

[lfod14]

You TYPICALLY always measure food raw…BUT your cup of spinach and MY cup of spinach could be very different. Most people go by the “loosely packed” method.

[CandyLindTX]

You TYPICALLY always measure food raw…BUT your cup of spinach and MY cup of spinach could be very different. Most people go by the “loosely packed” method.

OR … you can weigh it if you are OCD like me! LOL Or you can go the “incidental carbs” route, meaning you just don’t eat any carbs except stuff like the 1/2 gram of carb in an egg or carbs in seasonings, or small servings of known “safe” veggies when eaten as “fat carriers.”

[CandyLindTX]

so many things have really gone up in price just these last few years… Can’t remember the last time I bought a box of cereal, though

Yeah, which is why people are still buying the cheap crap on the cereal aisle. Depressing, really, what I see in people’s carts at the store. And HIGH FIVE! @OldDoug , we have successfully derailed this thread!

[Rajseth]

But Spinach does have a hellaciously good hit of vitamins, minerals and antioxidants.

I get my nutrients from liverwurst! As for salads - give me a blue cheese iceberg wedge. Extra blue cheese dressing extra bacon. The lettuce is just the vehicle for me to scarf down all that bacon and fat Bleu cheese dressing!!

[OldDoug]

Rajseth, certainly (and lettuce/bacon/Bleu cheese dressing sounds SO GOOD to me at 4 days into a fast…)

I am sure that we can get our required nutrients from other places than spinach. However - there is a lot of room, even in the very low-carb world, for varying sources.

[CandyLindTX]

As for salads - give me a blue cheese iceberg wedge. Extra blue cheese dressing extra bacon.

OK, I’m headed for my Jethro Bodine-sized salad bowl!