They eat SO much and SOOOOO OFTEN!

#21

True. It was a test to see who was awake. I’m glad you spotted the error. Thanks.

But yeah, I was just very tired, and attemping poetry way past my bed time, too many triple backflips with a twist followed by some double negatives … erh, what …

#22

Herbivores and humans have radically different intestine tracts. Herbivores have to spend hours grazing to get the necessary protein they require; we evolved the more efficient means by getting it through meat. No amount of carb loading will makes us herbivores. We have a much smaller digestive tract, and only one stomach. Our bodies weren’t made for grazing, hence the consequences of high fasting insulin and fat storage.

(Ken) #23

You can argue that the frequent eating patterns of carb based folks are because their bodies are constantly signaling to eat in order for the fat storage door to be kept wide open. Using insulin and leptin resistance as door stops to prevent it from closing.

Lipolytic (Keto) nutrition kicks those doorstops aside and allows it to close.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #24

In the case of herbivores, it is because the low nutrient density requires a lot of food intake. Ruminants have an extra stomach, the rumen, in which their food receives additional processing. Rodents and lagomorphs (rabbits) make up for their lack of a rumen and for their shorter intestines by processing their food twice (i.e., coprophagy).

In the case of glycolytic human beings (sugar-burners, carbovores), the constant hunger is the result of their chronically elevated insulin level. (A) it constantly requires fat cells to absorb as much glucose as they can and store it as fat, thus depriving other cells of necessary energy; and (b) it blocks the leptin receptors in the brain, leptin being the hormone the fat tissue secretes to tell the brain it’s safe for us to lay off the eating for a while.

(Edith) #25

Yes, my point exactly. When we eat too many carbs, the nutrient density is low, so we need to keep eating to try to get all the nutrients we need. I have seen mention that frequently, people who are obese can have nutrient deficiencies as if they were starving.

And then it makes even more sense because we are not cut out for all those carbs and grazing which then results in the health problems.

My point about herbivores was mostly that they eat all day long, just like humans on the SAD.

(Ken) #26

Herbivores, specifically ruminants, have to get their protein via a fermentation process. It’s the gut bacteria breaking down the cellulose that creates the protein.

(Karim Wassef) #27

When I first experienced this, I was originally disgusted and fell into a prideful arrogance about knowing better and not being so dependent on a substance… but over time, I’ve really started to feel bad for people around me who are basically addicts to their carb lifestyle. It saddens me to think of the damage they do to themselves when they’re sedentary, eating fruits and thinking they’re being healthy…
It’s hard to be around people you like and care about who are addicts of a destructive lifestyle. I even have older family members who are so indoctrinated for so long that they cannot stop and reconsider that they may have been wrong all their lives… and so the addiction continues.
The constant need for carbs and the devastatingly low nutrient content is not all that different from an alcoholic reaching for another bottle or a drug addict needing another hit. But this addiction is supported by all industries and media and even the medical community.

You can’t judge an addict. The chemistry in their bodies and brains have them trapped in a cycle of constant need and waste. Education is the only way out… and being a good example that some (not many) will want to learn more about…

I wish someone had told me 20 years ago what was happening in my body and brain. I did Atkins in college and it worked, but I didn’t really understand it. This time around, I reach out to every kid in my family and extended family. The rebellious ones under 20 are the best because they’re open to new ideas and very willing to consider that they may know something that the older generation doesn’t. But I’ve educated each of them so that they can fight their way through the misinformation of the carb-drug-addled media. Hopefully, they’ll teach others and we can start fixing this mess.

:smiley:

(Todd Batitis) #28

LOL, I am sure you are not alone. :slight_smile: Today, on a whim, I opted to go ahead and join the blood drive at work for the first time. I have given before but not since I moved out here to Washington state. One of the phlebotomists seemed a bit concerned after she told me to make sure I got some juice and a cookie or chips or something from the front of the van.

I told her, “Thanks, but the juices and snacks you have are full of carbs and sugar so I will just drink my water and chill for a few.” When I told her I was currently in my fasting window and hadn’t eaten for about 22 hours at that point she seemed completely baffled as to how I could still be having a coherent conversation and not ready to fall down… especially after donating a pint. :slight_smile:

(Todd Batitis) #29

This was one of the things that was a real eye opener in one of the books I listened too not that long ago. I think it was in Gary Taubes’ “Why We Get Fat”. I had heard about the hunger hormones leptin and ghrelin but his explanation of how leptin and insulin play together (so to speak) made a lot of sense.

When you are physically full and your body has plenty of energy (regardless of the source), leptin is saying “OK, we are good. No need for more food to process.”

Unfortunately, insulin is like that big oaf in the room that always has to talk louder and talk over people and it does just that. It keeps sending it’s message loud enough that our brains can’t hear the leptin and chronically, just like with cells becoming insulin resistant and ignoring insulin when it comes knocking, people develop leptin resistance too and their body never gets the signal through.

After recently taking a day off keto and such and doing an OMAD dorf out at the Asian buffet I actually took pics of each plate and then later entered it all into My Fitness Pal. I had 4 non-heaping plates of dinner food with a small plate of desserts and a couple scoops of ice cream. JUST shy of 6,000 calories, 622g of Carbs, 281g Protein, 40g Fiber and 283g of Fat.

It was WAY more than my body NEEDS but now that I have got a lot of my metabolic derangement under control, and with 20:4 IF my insulin levels are persistently low, leptin had no problem getting it’s it’s message through and I was fine and didn’t eat again for around 25 hours. In the past, with insulin levels ALWAYS being elevated, I would have eaten WAY more than I did and then an hour or two later would be looking for more food when there was no way I actually needed it but in those time, insulin was shouting loudly and my body couldn’t even hear the fain’t whisper of leptin.

#30

I’ve been reading through this thread, and it’s been a pretty decent read… I hear and understand a lot of it, and do understand that switching over to this WOE/WOL, if it does anything, it opens up one’s eyes to see those issues that were overlooked for many years. … But there’s still one thing I haven’t read.

The other side of that proverbial coin…

Not everyone that becomes overweight, has done so from constantly stuffing their mouths with foods. Yes, I’m sure there are many that indeed probably did/do seem to eat constantly throughout the day, but you have to remember, there are also some others that just simply ate, wrong. … I should know, I’m one of them. :neutral_face: - I was actually the opposite most of the time. Yeah, there were times when I did eat (munchie-style?) eating entirely way more than needed and probably junky stuff at that. But to be honest, a lot of the time over the years, I was simply eating single meals, or even not at all. Yeah, for many years, I would skip a day, two or even three. So no, I didn’t know I was actually fasting? I didn’t think of it that way, because I just simply didn’t know any better. I wasn’t hungry, so therefore I didn’t eat. - But I do know now it was more to do with the fact I was just eating the wrong types of foods.

So when I did eat, I would eat the standard foods of a SAD, without thinking about carbs, calories, etc. I even spoke with my doctor, who was a good listener, about 20 years ago. I told him I didn’t understand how I was picking up weight, especially when I was eating as much? So his explanation to me was that when you only eat once a day, it slows you metabolism, and your body would hold onto everything it could, because it didn’t know when the next meal would be? TBH, I still don’t know if this is correct, but his suggestion to fix this, was to yep, eat more meals. Smaller meals, but many. As many as 5 or 6 a day. :flushed: … Well, for someone who didn’t eat many meals already, adding more sure didn’t feel like the right answer either. And no, it didn’t work as you might have guessed. If anything, it made me want to eat even less. And I think I did something like 4 meals a couple times, but they all seemed forced.

Anyway, didn’t mean to start a novel here. :slight_smile: And I sure hope no one thinks I was saying this thread was coming across as a bashing thread in any way. Because I really don’t think it is. I just wanted to add, or point out that basically not all folks we see walking around with excess weight, did this from simply over eating. Some could be simply they didn’t know how to eat properly. … I sure wish I did. :slight_smile:

(Ken) #31

Well, your Doc was wrong. His understanding of the metabolicss was incorrect. Even though you were eating only once per day, it was still enough carbs to gradually increase insulin and leptin resistance to the point you were overcompensating glycogen and gaining fat.

(Marius the butter craving dude) #32

I donated blood during a fast at the 36 hour mark. The doctor did a iron in blood test before donating. She told me that she never saw such high iron levels for a faster (in context she was referring to religious fasting and veganism) and that even compared to people who eat regularly I had high iron levels. I told her that my blood has high ketones. She told me that it dose not matter and that if I feel good I can donate blood even on the fifth day of fasting.

(Marius the butter craving dude) #33

Overeating is a symptom of high insulin levels. Tie this with the recommendations of the media and mainstream doctors to eat 6 meals a day the feeling of hunger every 2 hours dose not raise a concern for the individual.(Thought experiment) If the media would suddenly tell us that eating one meal a day is the way than people who feel hunger every 2 hours would start questioning their health.

(Marius the butter craving dude) #34

Tacking a small snack (a hand of peanuts, eating a new cookie from the canteen) may initially be out of curiosity and boredom. But through time and due to insulin this becomes into an urge to eat and the occasional snack becomes another full fledged meal time. And the media reinforces this behavior with the idea of 6 meals a day…
When I got my first job the colleagues told me that in the first year everyone puts on 10 kg. I shrugged it off as a mean comment. The canteen had an interesting variety of deserts. I was curious to try them all… sure enough I could not go without my daily desert… Thinking back the urge I had was that of an addict.

#35

Yes sir, that was my point. He was indeed wrong. … Believe me, I wish he had said “What ya need to do is simply cut out carbs, keeping them under 20g a day, and you will be fine. Don’t worry about not eating any set amount of meals” :slight_smile: But I would have probably thought he was nuts. :smile:

And yes, those meals back then were indeed carb heavy, so no, I wasn’t doing myself any favors. But again, my main reason for posting was to simply point out that sometimes it’s just poor eating habits and not just over-eating in general. … At least I know now, which is what counts. :slight_smile:

(Bob M) #36

You fasted 5 days and then gave blood? That is not something I’d recommend to anyone else.

I personally eat before giving blood. I think giving blood takes a lot out of me.

(Bob M) #37

There’s a theory that overeating could also be caused by high PUFA intake, which is “independent” of insulin. That is, high PUFA intake causes your fat cells to be insulin sensitive, meaning they take in more insulin and more blood sugar. This will make you hungry, as the energy you’re taking in gets locked away in your fat cells, so you eat more.

(Todd Batitis) #38

How is your iron NORMALLY? I ask because it is possible to have high iron genetically. My wife carries the HFE gene which makes her have high levels of iron all the time. When she found this out, she started donating blood again because that is one of the ways to get it down. She has the ability to go to the hospital to get a blood draw but to do that she has to actually pay THEM to take her blood for her and then, IIRC, they don’t actually use it but destroy it.

(Todd Batitis) #39

Exactly. I have talked to my primary doc, my cardiologist and my wife’s primary about this kind of thing. How frustrating it must be to try and recommend things to patients over and over knowing that they aren’t going to do it. I understand though because if, when I went to the bariatric clinic at 368 pounds, the doc had told me that the best thing for me would be to be keto, do Intermittent Fasting and look at doing extended fasting… I would have looked at her like she had 5 heads.

Without fail, my 3 docs I mentioned, all said they would keep telling the person each time they saw them because eventually the hope is “things will click or be enough of a spark to get them to take an interest in their health and be someone like you”. :slight_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #40

Dr. Westman is a past president of the Obesity Medicine Association (formerly the Bariatric Surgery Association), which is solidly behind the LCHF/ketogenic way of eating. Your bariatric surgeon migh well have surprised you!