The Vegan Vegetarian Myth

(Scott) #41

Okay, I went back and read it. I thought it might be a youtube which I can’t watch in my office because my wife (next office) will here it and say “that doesn’t sound like work”.

It was interesting. I hated the pop up ads for Club Crackers and Rice Crispy treats.

(Full Metal Keto) #42

@Dipper_Actual I would definitely read that. He sounds like a fascinating man. It’s old stuff now, almost 100 years. But he was sharp investigating this stuff as it’s disappearing in the modern world rapidly. Although not a carnivore culture but definitely a hunter gatherer culture is found in West African Pygmy tribal groups. I would be curious if these omnivorous Paleo diet people were examined. Most of the all groups he talks about he mentioned small amounts of seasonal plant foods. I don’t think he found any examples of a pure carnivore diet. The Inuit and Maasai often come up in discussions about the non necessity of plant foods, although neither of these societies are carnivore, some consume milk and they all consume some plant foods. Another thing that’s interesting is that he was a dentist and found that any tooth decay or damage was extremely rare, like 1 in a 1000 teeth examined. These were people who never went to a dentist in their life and they certainly didn’t floss or brush their teeth. The western diet brings constant combat to your dental health.



I thought the same thing. I love mussels, but it’s never occurred to me that they taste like liver. Sometimes shellfish can be a bit… musky. But mussels are milder than oysters for sure.

I think you’re just preaching to the choir on this one. The article is right that vegetarianism and veganism is really pushing an agenda and it’s often a very recently developed religous/ethical one, not at all based in health. I’ve known this for a while, but I’ve stopped getting into it with people. As long as they’re not trying to push their diet on me, I have to walk away from the conversation. I just find it too irritating.


I didn’t click on the article (well, I haven’t yet) but I was very excited to see some Weston Price on here. Thank you for sharing it! It’s fascinating stuff. Also very upsetting… I work a lot with kids and have watched mouths change just in the last 20 years. Almost all of my students have serious structural issues with their jaws and palates now, and parents seem to think it’s just about crooked teeth and braces.

(Full Metal Keto) #45

I don’t think they taste the same, however those animals have livers too and we eat them whole. I notice a slight liver flavor with mussels, not really so much in clams. And of course the briney seafood flavor help cover it some compared to eating a hunk of cow liver. The only liver that I have liked is pork liver, I don’t like the gamey iron flavor of beef liver. I can eat some but I burn out at about 3oz. Pork liver is kind of sweet and mild.

(Carl Keller) #46

This is pretty much why I try not to involve myself in vegan debates. It’s very awkward to work with and be friends with a vegan in real life and I’ve learned that knowing what I am eating is making me thrive and I see nothing but negativity, impatience and a sick day once a month in him. I don’t need to point out what’s wrong with his WOE to validate mine and I try to carry that practice into this forum.

@David_Stilley I read every word of the article and knowing that it was written by an ex-vegan, gives it a little extra oomph. I was not suprised with what I read.

(Full Metal Keto) #47

Thinking about these findings happening in the 1920’s before true industrialized garbage food started being produced, Corn flakes were created in 1872 but the real industrial food horrors didn’t really start until the late 1950’s combined with a new set of dietary recommendations from big brother. Guess what’s happened most to us who were born and grew up eating the worst of this stuff for 50+ years? :cowboy_hat_face:

(Scott) #48

I get so upset that thinking that we were directed away from eating eggs and bacon so we could have healthy cereals with low fat milk.

(Jennibc) #49

It’s true, and awful lot of vegans end up seeming absolutely unhinged – I can’t help but think that follows years and years of nutritional deficiencies.

(Full Metal Keto) #50

I ate eggs and bacon once a week if I was lucky, not so much because my mom thought they were bad, but she was too lazy to get up and make breakfast for us before school. She packed our lunch the night before and from age five I woke up, got myself ready and off to school while she was in bed. Always plenty of cereal, pop tarts, donuts, toast and instant breakfast drink mix, also orange juice. Nightmare diet. I’m luck I wasn’t diabetic at 20! :cowboy_hat_face:

(Kirk Wolak) #51

I am tempted to feed them Vegan Bacon…

When they ask why it tastes so good…

I tell them: “It’s made with REAL Vegans!”

(Kirk Wolak) #52

My new favorite.

Seared Salmon Bites.

Cut it up into 2"x2" pieces… Rinse it off, pat it dry and season it with salt, pepper, NoSalt.

Then take it to the grill (off), and use a Blow Torch and Sear it. Cooked on the outside, Sushi on the inside…

OMG. I normally can’t get full from fish… But after 2lbs of this (and only this), I was full!
Going to eat that on Monday and Tuesday this week!

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #53

That sounds delicious!!


Well, the Indian CAD ranking is correlated to the introduction of vegetable cooking oils and the eradication of authentic dairy ghee - as explored by Nina Teicholz in The Big Fat Suprise.

Also, in the same time period (1990s on) the SAD fast food chains and snack food cooking in the veg oil (and worse, adulteration with motor oil is an issue) exploded in India. And this has tragically affected Indians of all religions and dietary practices. Previous to this, CAD/diabetes/cancer were much lower.

Whereas the traditional land-based Indian diets (pre-Monsanto and the soil destruction that has gone with it) - for the middle and upper castes especially - were quite healthy, with lots of ghee, yogurt, and fresh cheese - and for Muslims (around 15% of the population) and Christians (just 2%, lots in Goa) - plenty of lamb/chicken/seafood etc.

Interestingly, older Hindu culture was more ayurvedic - and the vedic view of constitutional health is that some people’s physiologies and situations definitely require animal flesh protein. Last but not least - indigenous gatherer-hunter “tribal” peoples have a long history on the continent and its islands, and have been marginalized and exploited by most all organized religions and political empires - a whole other subject.


The book The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability by Lierre Keith (a former vegan for 20+ years) sums up so many myth corrections with empathy for the moral, political, spiritual, and physical health reasons behind the culture of vegetarianism and veganism. It continues to help me empathize with the many reasons behind rabid veganism and pious or frightened vegetarianism, and to have compassion for all the years I took shelter in personal notions about vegetarianism as harmless (Forgive me if I already mentioned it upthread - haven’t scrolled up to check that).

Reading her book really helped me during my initial switch from 25 years of vegetarianism to meat eating for nutrient density (and ditching the bottles of supplements prescribed to me in order to make my long term vegetarianism healthy enough to sustain, according to lab tests), which then led to low carb and keto.

She dispels the myth of industrial veg agriculture as a supremely pure food path - the life-death-cycle permeates all foods one way or another. It’s a complex topic well deserving of inquiry and contemplation, and Keith’s book is comprehensive.

What I love about LCHF/keto is that after one is 100% fat-adapted, the appetite reduces - and we can become much more efficient on less food than many a SAD carb addict.

(Raj Seth) #56

Soylent Green!

(Ian Collings) #57

I found it damn interesting and a good source of information to fight the disinformation.

(Ellenor Malik (Mrs Butter Mayo)) #58

Would you consider yourself a pescetarian nowadays?

(Full Metal Keto) #59

@Sharon_E eats pigs now!

(Ellenor Malik (Mrs Butter Mayo)) #60

That’s surreal.