Testing a Pure Fat Fast drinking only double cream for 5 days on surplus calories (3k). This is the last day

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #1

SO I had this idea back in february after a heated discussion on calories in keto, which I suspected from experience with extra carbs and protein not being a “free for all”. Back then I did a test for just one day in going to 4k calories while staying within 20g of carbs but around 300g fat and 200g protein. I was out of ketosis in the blink of an eye and took me 4 painful days to get back in.
However I remembered one episode where having only fat bombs one day for almost 4k calories I actually lost weight the next day, so I gathered courage and patience and since Monday I have been living off of a tub of double cream per day. Around 600ml bring 2800 calories. I had it with coffee, broth, yesterday by desperation I added a bit of gelatin to make it “panna cotta” but overall I have been at or over 95% every day, with carbs under 10g just coming from the cream, and protein (painfully) under 25g per day.

I will post proper results tomorrow but so far my suspicion about fat calories not mattering in the concept of calories as “3500 extra calories make an extra pound of fat” cause at the moment I am 2kilos (4.2 lbs) lighter than monday, and all of this is done on a metabolism quite broken as I come from an eating disorder and I have hardly seen a change on the scale since January despite being strict keto.

One question about cortisol and its effects on blood sugars arises though, as days where I have got less than 7/8 hours sleep I woke up to higher 4s/5s mmol for blood glucose which considering on an average have been around 3.5 because of the fasting mimiking effect makes me wonder. I heard about the dawn effect for diabetics which I am technically not though I was warned about prediabetes 5 years ago, when I actually started keto. I used to suffer from psot prandial hypo but again, we’re talking years ago and years of keto in between. If anyone could point me to sources to understand what this blood glucose spikes could be due to despite the almost nill intake of carbs and protein I would be extremely grateful to try and understand and possibly share better researched and understood information

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(Allan L) #2

This is about the weight loss I experience when I move to ZC from Keto and re-gain when I re-introduce 20g of keto carbs.

(bulkbiker) #3

HI Ginger
Dawn phenomenon is experienced by almost everyone and is why we wake up in the morning.
I don’t think you have to have diabetes to have raised blood sugar it’s what prompts us to get up and face the day.
I’m very envious of your figures tho as I often wake up to high 5’s and low 6’s except when I’m on an extended fast so I don’t see anything wrong with 4’s and 5’s.
I’m also very interested in your cream experiment. When I’m fasting (which I define as not eating anything solid) I usually have cream in coffee (and sometimes tea). I normally only have a few tablespoons per day though so maybe I should try more!

(Tim W) #4

Great question!

As MarkGossage stated, the body cranks up glucose to give us energy to move in the morning. Dr. Fung mentions this in his last podcast with the dudes. He talked about how hormones start to climb a few hours before waking and then glucose/insulin will rise to give us the increased energy needed to switch from the resting to the active state.

Now, I think you might be asking “where is my body getting this glucose from?” since you are so low carb, is that a correct read of your question/statement? If so, I’ll be frank and say, I think it’s a good question and I’ve not seen an answer…

I hope you find the answer you seek. Wish I could be more helpful.

Regards,

Tim

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #5

that is indeed the question! I know in water fasting they get blood glucose to go down in the 3s mmol and so far this experiment has been mimicking that more closely than I expected, my only guess on the comparatively high blood glucose readings I experiences on day two and now on day five was that lack of sleep raisede cortisol and that started basically throwing a tantrum making glucose even from my muscles if needed be. but enough to bring me to 5mmol in the morning when my usual otherwise in this test has been 3.2/3.5? that’s some serious cannibalisation! Again I’m doing this to get numbers and infos and would not repeat it for any reason nor recommend it, but I now need to understand the numbers to make the effort worth it :frowning:

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #6

oh wow that’s interesting thanks for that! all instances of water fasting I read about claimed blood glucose in the 3s or even 2s mmol so i felt the odd one out, but it same or higher numbers happen to others in extended fasting I am less worried of having some sort of underlying issue I had no idea about and this test revealed, which was what was worring me most!

(bulkbiker) #7

Wow I have only ever got down to 3.5 when fasting and that was on day 3 (then gain I still do have the coffee with cream at least 4 per day). 3.5 has been my lowest FBG ever. After breaking the fast 36hours later I had an FBG of 6.3! Your numbers are great.

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #8

seriously though, do we just go catabolic and make glucose from our own muscles when we’re water fasting or mimicking that? cause on this test the cream brough in just 10g carbs /9g protein per day and the low blood sugar made sense for that, but going up to 5/6? how do we phisically get the amino acids for the gluconeogenesis even?

(Bunny) #9

From what I understand the left over extra glucose that we eat is converted into glycogen and stored in the muscle tissue, then it gets converted back to glucose when we are exercising or when the body/brain needs it and of course spiking insulin, if low ketones are not enough fuel? However if you eat a little bit of protein when fasting that kicks in the metabolic hormone glucagon from cells on the pancreas to increase concentrations of fat and glucose in the blood stream.

(Chris W) #10

When your liver breaks up the lipids one of the byproducts is glycerol, when the liver so decides it can be used in GNG and then your glucose will raise some. GNG can pull from multiple sources not just protein. When it pulls from the glycerol it is more regulated since it requires the lipids to be broken up first. When you are fasting it is going to be a lower smaller amount and probably almost unnoticeable, this is why you don’t normally loose much muscle tissue when you fast.
When you bring excess lipids more than you body would have requested it will break them down in into energy since you insulin is mostly low, and of course its not as regulated so it may spike your glucose because your body is very good at not wasting energy.

When your are in a excess of lipids your body will force your metabolism to increase, brown fat will become active, and your body will try and waste more energy and do things that it would normally not be doing if your fat intake is restricted or lower. So when you intake a large amount of exogenous lipids that are easily digested your liver has to either make them into energy via ketogensis, store them via DLG as lipids and most of the time I think it does the first even though the process will raise your glucose as well I would imagine not enough in most people trigger fat storage.

I do this regularly now, i up my intake by 25% for a couple days, then I go to normal or fast. I almost always loose on the second day of the uptake, and have always lost on the third day. I did five days this last week and lost a pound a day. My intake during that time was just south of 250G a day. There is a price to pay though, my BF % went up, and when you come off the high of the excess fat I am always cold for a day.

(Erin Macfarland ) #11

I went to town last night eating, i was super hungry and since I had a race this morning (a 10k run) i kind of overate knowing it would probably give me a boost. I had two big fatty steaks, dark chocolate, veggies, nuts…and this morning I was so queasy. Definitely over did the fat. I still do stuff like this after having done keto for about 3 1/2 years, lol. I always think to myself I’ll never do THAT again (i.e. eat a piece of cake or too many nuts or just too much fatty meat). And inevitably my stomach gets the best of me and I pay the next day! But after this feasting, I was not only queasy and had no appetite all day, I was burning up this morning. Just so uncomfortably hot. So there is definitely an increase in body temperature when upping your intake. I managed to get through the run without puking, (sorry, TMI) but even after all that and being active and going to my kids sports I have no desire to eat. So on the plus side, really shoving in the food will carry you through if you want to do some fasting.

(Jo) #12

Interesting! When I first started my holistic doctor suggested that I drink heavy whipping cream with 2 raw eggs mixed in only for about 4 days, not eating anything else. She wanted me to consume 1 quart a day. I could not do it, I was full after 2 cups and could not bring myself to do more. Then I discovered keto and started putting in a bit more variety after about 3 days. I did lose that first week but not hugely, and I certainly didn’t eat 4000 kcals (which is what a quart of heavy whipping cream comes out to.) I could physically not do it.

(Chris W) #13

I think the primary difference between me and you in that instance was that I uptake around 25% fat as a calculated amount. This was purposeful, if I ate to satiety on my increased days I would not eat at all most likely after the second day but my hunger signaling is a little messed up yet, getting better but still not right.
I if anything lower protein, part of that is the expectations the GNG will kick up some and possibly shut down ketogensis for a while.
I know when I have a gigantic steak, or steak several days in a row I am pretty much out of keto for at least hours sometimes a day following. I rarely vary from my diet so its noticeable when things like this happen.
I also believe its matter of how healthy you are, I have noticed the farther along on this WOE the more sensitive I am to protein, which tells me that I am not needing as much to fix or repair. It seemed when I started I could eat a lot more protein with less side effects, not so much now that I am leaner and feeling better.

(Chris W) #14

1 cup is 825 calories in the US give or take, that is a lot of fat to down wow.

(Chris W) #15

And if you are not ketogenic that will be of little value as you will most likley store a lot of that energy.

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #16

@Emacfarland weird, I feel like this when I have excess protein, not fat.

@fiddlebanshee i had basically 1 and 1/2 cup per day (600ml), our double cream is 2820 calories per 600ml. it was hard, it wasn’t alway manageable to drink on its own, and i usually love to gulp it. the last 2 days I mixed it with gelatine and because something akin to panna cotta and I could manage better. went up to almost 25g protein those two days but couldn’t have gone through thr 5 days otherwise

I finally finished the experiment tomorrow thank god, eat to my heart’s content today, still didn’t manage nearly as many caloires but apparenlty I had a craving for almonds! who knew!

a apart for days where I was lacking sleep my blood ketones were over 3 fasted and blood glucose under 4 which was my aim.
incidentally I have lot rather than put on weight. I’ll film a proper video report of the whole expience tomorrow to go out on wednesday and post here if you guys like.

thanks so much for the support and explanations!

(Jo) #17

Yea I could not do it and I went to a keto versed nutritionist for advice. She fixed my macros and I was a much happier camper!

(Jay AM) #18

Jason Wittrock in YouTube did a 21 day 4000 calorie challenge on keto that I enjoyed. You can skip to day 21 to see his results. Keto Connect did it too but, the measurements they took felt useless to me. They weren’t as in depth and changes could be explained simply.

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #19

My problem with both those is that they had no limit on protein, and I did a test liek that back in february, it just doesn’t work like that for anyone who has a history of insulin resistance, protein over my daily allowance does kick me out of ketosis. I was glad to see in that sense that fat alone is ok

(Candy Lind) #20

One thing nobody’s mentioned here is autophagy. You were fat fasting with cream, right? I got a bit confused at one point as to whether you were or not. But …

If you were fasting, autophagy kicked in (day 2, I think? Someone CIIW) and at least some of your energy was coming from the cells your body was “eating up” in order to replace them with new cells.