Testing a Pure Fat Fast drinking only double cream for 5 days on surplus calories (3k). This is the last day

(Liz ) #21

It’s unclear if autophagy halts at the moment you ingest any nutrients whatsoever. If you want to try to achieve it, Fung recommends water only fasts. So I’m not sure a fat fast includes the benefits of autophagy.

#22

I hope you plan on doing this a while. A small amount of loss could so easily be due to a change in fluid retention or amount of waste in the colon. Extra fats can definitely make a difference there.

#23

It is called the Dawn Phenomenon…normal in everyone by degree.
I experience at 30 point AM spike and in normal ranges all day after meals.
I have HIGH insulin resistance (IR) and am betting that when my IR improves so will the spikes go down.
Great source for almost everything KETO~
https://www.dietdoctor.com/?s=dawn+phenomenon

#24

Actually Fung recommends water fasts AND whatever helps you succeed in fasting…he is NOT anti-broth, but notes the protein in it. He’s most interested in all interviews and writings with getting people fasting regardless of how they get there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Aw0P7GjHE&t=1s

#25

Interesting info…where did you learn this? I NEED to get into autophagy to get rid of more loose skin due to Keto weight loss…thx!

(Liz ) #26

Yes and that’s why my post was specifically in regards to autophagy.

#27

Me too!
I have high IR despite normal blood sugars and my nutritionist tells me to hang in because it will take time to come down, and how far it comes down will be most impacted by IF and long term fasting. The end result where I land will be in large part determined by how long I’ve had it (years) and what my body can do to fix it over time…it may never be in the normal range. We will see, I’ve only been Keto for 9 months and I didn’t have a baseline, because my doctor, like most wasn’t paying attention to my insulin until I asked about it after diagnosis with T2D and learning on my own. I want a good KETO doc in my city!!!

I keep track of my IR through the Homeostatic Insulin Resistance formula to log my progress (HOMA-IR)
This is a widely accepted formula and is super simple:
https://www.mdcalc.com/homa-ir-homeostatic-model-assessment-insulin-resistance (it is fasting glucose x fasting insulin divided by 405).

Anything above 1.5 is a problem and ideal range is 1.0 or less
Great video from Keto Breckinridge 2018 on this topic: https://www.dietdoctor.com/member/presentations/naiman-breckenridge?autoplay=817477

(Candy Lind) #28

Right here on the forums! I would search in the fasting sub forum and think about getting The Obesity Code by Dr. Jason Fung.

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #29

i’m so happy the test is over. worth it for data gathering but nothing else.
I put together a day to day analysis with blood readings, fat% and weight ins if anyone is interested in the whole experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HieONzPhjM

Losing weight on a deficit/surplus?
#30

Keep in mind that cream is not zero carb. Food companies are allowed to claim zero if it is less than 1 gm. I believe it’s actually about 0.6 gm of carb per serving ( tablespoon?) - don’t quote me I’m trying to remember where i read it.
So when you are drinking a lot of heavy cream you are still getting some carbs.
Now, if you did this on just coconut oil, you might see something different. But still, your body has gluconeogenesis to make glucose from the stored fat in the liver.

(Jay AM) #31

I think double cream specifically is 0.2g per tablespoon. That’s the Tesco brand it looks like.

(Mary) #32

Our North American cream is much lower fat than British Cream. Lucky Brits!

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #33

You’d think but according to your USDA values heavy whipping cream is basically oru double cream. over 100ml we have 50g fat, over 100ml your tend to be around 46/48g of fat so very similar.
I know in the US decimals aren’t quite used for values but can confirm that for double cream (so fair assumption it could be really close to us heavy whipping cream) has 1.6g carbs per 100ml and we tend to be precise to the .1

(Ginger's KetoInThe.UK) #34

how do you manage to measure your insulin levels on top of blood glucose and ketones?

I couldn’t find a good keto doctor in london nor in cardiff where I live now, really wish i could ask for blood tests and have them on board understanding what I am trying to fix

#35

FYI- I am in the US.

Your answer to getting your doc on board in the UK is Dr. David Unwin. He is in the UK and he was given an award by the national health for reversing diabetes in the diabetics in his care and saving tons of money for the government. He is easily found on dietdoctor.com the site is free up to a point…and then is $9 US per month. Most of what you need is free.

There are 16 videos by Dr. Unwin to doctors where he explains what he is doing to other docs! Yea! They are more likely to listen to him, but are well worth anybody watching! Here is video #1 https://www.dietdoctor.com/member/courses/unwin

Also, on dietdoctor, is Dr. Sarah Hallberg, board certified in lipids and obesity and internal medicine here in US. She has lots of incredible videos and she is not only in clinical practice but just finished a 400 person/2 year study on lipids and keto. She also has specific video on how she peels meds off for diabetics that is specifically geared toward doctors. All her stuff is great!

And, maybe your doc would read Obesity Code or Diabetes Code by Dr. Jason Fung in Canada…he is also clinically engaged and long term expert with 15 years of keto with patients; he is a nephrologist - kidney disease specialist, treating primarily diabetics who’s kidneys are damaged from too much sugar for too long!

I request my fasting glucose and fasting insulin when I do my blood work, otherwise they only do the A1C and glucose routinely; I had to get my doctor on board, and now, 70 lbs. lighter and off diabetes meds, she’s a believer even though she doesn’t totally engage in Keto, she’s helpful to me.

I measure my ketones only occasionally with an in-home blood test(cheapest one out there unless you go to Ketonix and test breath vs blood ketones). I purchase online from: https://bestketonetest.com/

I also measure my fasting glucose daily just for the heck of it to track progress…no real need to now that I am off T2diabetes meds and am now just fasting to move insulin resistance downward.

You can always work with someone remotely for a price…two great programs I know of are: Dr. Fung’s Intensive Dietary Management (IDM) out of Canada. Or, Virta out of California (Dr. Hallberg is on their board) which gives you your own health coach and doctors order blood, work with your doctor and manage medications as a team…not sure how this would work with UK, but while expensive you literally have a personal health coach and food app with which they engage with you daily!

Keep going! It’s worth it! YOU are worth it!

Kathleen

(bulkbiker) #37

Unlikely to work. I tried doctor, diabetes nurses and phlebotomists to try and get a fasting insulin test done in the NHS (UK). They either said that the test doesn’t exist or that it was not available on the NHS. In the end I had to get it done privately. I find it quite disgraceful that so called “diabetes experts” here don’t seem to understand how important these tests are. And then they wonder why we have a Type 2 “epidemic”…

#38

I thoroughly agree!!

I’m happy to lend a sympathetic ear anytime you need one; I’m so sorry for you with the dead ends with the NHS! The political progressives here in US want to force the NHS equivalent on us here…no thanks, I like my choices even if they are not ideal, I can at least find a doc to help me! I also have a Keto nutritionist who works with me via the phone, I pay $75 US for a half hour with him on the phone whenever I need, and he reviews my food logs etc. He’s a bargain because he also responds to my emails for free! Absolutely love him!

Do you have some sort of ombudsman or appeal process in your healthcare system? Maybe you could get them to help??

OR, maybe write Dr. Unwin and ask him to call your doctor or write him or something? I’m the eternal optimist and always ask even if it seems impossible.

The “experts” in the US are the same…they are busy telling my T2D father that he should eat 45 carbs minimum per meal and when he was in the hospital last week for heart issues, they had him eating nearly 80g carbs per meal and then were dosing him with insulin! AAAARGH!

There is a great documentary out entitled: The Magic Pill I watched it on Netflix here…it is filled with excellent information I am sure you already posses, but it is very helpful with getting other people to understand.

Kathleen

(David) #39

Good video. Well worth a watch.

(Lee Jones) #40

That’s ridiculous!

I’m going to request the test off my doc on my next and see what his response is. I’ll let you know :+1:t2:

As a matter of interest where did you end up getting the test done and what were your results?

(bulkbiker) #41

I’m pretty sure I know what the answer will be…

I used a company called medichecks.com

You need to get a blood draw done somewhere (the first time I did this privately the second time I timed the fasting insulin test with an HbA1c so the phlebotomist did it for me. Post the sample off to medichecks and you get emailed the results.
The first one with a lunchtime fasted blood drawer was 3.41
The second an early morning fasted bloods was 7.85
Looks like insulin levels move around quite a bit too…!