Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #189

Yeah, it has me as obese now and I’m 3 pounds from goal.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #190

With respect, @ComfortFreak, I’ve been at this for 2.5 years and I kind of know what I’m talking about. Phinney isn’t prescribing a level of calorie intake at induction. He’s saying that if you restrict carbs to under 20 (or whatever) and keep protein moderate, most people will naturally find themselves eating a much lower amount of calories. As their fat loss continues, they will slowly but surely have an increased appetite, and will start eating more calories, most of them from fat.

He’s not advocating calories restriction, nor is he advocating counting calories. He’s describing what the body’s weight regulation and hunger signaling and satiety signaling will naturally do.

I think you should do whatever you feel comfortable doing. But people here have said they think telling newbies to eat more fat is a good way to get them to stop fearing fat; respectfully, nobody has said that a newbie should be eating 75% of their calories from fat. I don’t see how you’re going to drop body fat whilst eating that much. Maybe you don’t have much body fat on you; most people with lots of body fat find themselves markedly less hungry once they restrict carbs. But be my guest, please feel free to report back in a few months and let me know how it goes.

Best of luck to you

#191

Thanks and will do. I have about 60 lbs of body fat to lose (max) I’d be happy with 50. I’m going to keep doing me, but I still find it laughable that someone’s appetite would “naturally” drop that low during the adaptation phase based on my own experience.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #192

Well that’s fair enough. Though the carbohydrate-insulin theory of fat regulation is that once you stop artificially driving up your insulin (by restricting carbohydrate intake), your body will be able to start utilizing dietary fat and body fat as fuel sources and you’ll therefore be less hungry less often.

How quickly that happens is a subject of debate.

(John) #193

Week 4 in my case. I have never intentionally added fat to my meals just to add it for more calories. I have just stopped avoiding it, while at the same time avoiding carbs.

(Chris) #194

but frankly the US Navy Body Fat Calculator is an equation that is pretty damn accurate enough for most people.

Thanks haha, this is worse for my ego than the impedance I got recently.

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(Bunny) #195

What your saying here is interesting and caught my attention and for the sake of not creating a new hypothesis; if you were to simply or moderately increase carbohydrate intake and “naturally” (in contrast to “artificially driving up”) bring down (glucose) insulin frequency and really cut down on the dietary intake of protein and fat or eliminating it entirely? You (humans not experimental mice) would then rapidly start burning body fat and if diabetic very very rapidly? That’s fascinating and is blowing my mind! But then what would happen (below) if we don’t get any dietary fat?

Short Answer: You will probably end up with skinny diabetes or pathological insulin resistance neo-genesis from a fatty liver? Puts a serious ROADBLOCK & STOP sign on going pro-carbohydrate vegan (sorry vegans)?

New fat is needed to clear old fat from body:

“…Reporting in the May issue of the journal Cell Metabolism, the researchers say these mice developed fatty liver disease when placed on a zero fat diet.

“When we took dietary fat away from the FASKOL (FAS knock out in liver) mice, their livers quickly filled with fat,” says senior investigator Clay F. Semenkovich, M.D., professor of medicine and of cell biology and physiology. “Their ‘old’ fat stores mobilized to the liver, but their livers could not initiate fat burning, and the fat just accumulated. We concluded that to regulate fat burning, the liver needs ‘new’ fat.” …”

“…New fat is the fat that is consumed in food or is newly made in the liver as glucose is converted to fat by fatty acid synthase, the enzyme missing in the FASKOL (FAS knock out in liver) mice. When the system takes in high amounts of glucose, fatty acid synthase in the liver makes it into new fat.

In addition to fatty livers, the transgenic mice developed LOW BLOOD SUGAR levels on the zero fat diet. Both symptoms were reversed with dietary fat, and in fact on a normal diet, the transgenic mice were no different than normal mice in terms of body weight, body fat, metabolic rate and food intake. …”

“…The effect of added dietary fat was duplicated when the mice were treated with a drug that activates a protein called PPAR-alpha. Liver fat declined to normal in the FASKOL (FAS knock out in liver) mice within 10 days of receiving the PPAR-alpha activating drug. …”

“…PPAR-alpha is a protein found in all mammals and is central to metabolic processes that extract energy from dietary components like carbohydrates and fats. Because the PPAR-alpha activating drug did the same work that dietary fat does, the investigators concluded that new fat may be crucial to initiating the PPAR-alpha pathway.

“Scientists have argued that PPAR-alpha is activated by fats,” says Semenkovich, who also directs the Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism and Lipid Research and is a staff physician at Barnes-Jewish Hospital. “But we’ve never known which fats or where they come from. This study suggests that new fat is a ‘key’ that unlocks the ‘door’ for PPAR-alpha in the liver.”

The liver is very important for processing nutrients consumed in the diet and sending them on to the rest of the body. Abnormal processing of glucose or lipids in the liver contributes to problems of type 2 diabetes and atherosclerosis, and fatty liver disease often is seen in people who are obese or suffer from insulin resistance. …” …More

(Wendy) #196

Interesting.

(Jane) #197

I had good success with a fat fast a few months back - maybe this is why. I am assuming you need to be in an energy deficit overall for your body to even need to use your stored fat.

(Brian) #198

That happens to more people than you might think. I think I know some personally.

(bulkbiker) #199

Eventually dead?

(Bunny) #200

…yes by trapping cholesterol in your blood stream and a definite future of strokes and cardiac arrests?

What did Ancel Keys (Mr. Cholesterol) die of?

”…He remained highly active, walking, swimming and continuing his research at home in Minneapolis, but suffered STROKES and a broken hip in his final years. …” …More

“…But shortly before his death at 100, when asked if he attributed his longevity to the diet Keys, ever the scientist, replied: “Very likely, but no proof.” …” …More

Although eating Whole Foods (Mediterranean diet) is a good thing it was the carbs (pastas, whole grain breads, refined flour, refined sugars, fructose etc.) that put that last nail in the coffin?

I will continue to put “real butter on my cheese!” :rofl::joy::rofl::joy::rofl::joy::rofl::joy: or was that supposed to be Margarine? :joy::rofl::joy::rofl::rofl:

#201

I watch carbs and that is all.

(Running from stupidity) #202

#myarse

(Anna) #203

Thank you Gabe,
I consider myself a newbie. I keep trying but never sticking to it. In the back of my mind the high fat was questionable because I am 48% body fat.
I am menopausal 64 yrs, 5’1" and 1 67 lbs.

Now my hubby who is very thin has cancer and wants to do KETO for his health. And I need to be healthy for him.

(Terence Dean) #204

Absolutely. This video below by Jason Fung explains the process beautifully. Its all about keeping insulin low, but an important key to doing that is to keep carbs low and get fat adapted. According to Fung if you have a daily calorie requirement of say 2000 kcal you can actually eat 1200kcal and make the rest up by allowing the body to burn its own fat reserves. BUT don’t try this unless you are well and truly fat adapted and you’re sure your insulin levels are low enough to give you access, otherwise you are going to end up lowering your metabolic rate. So this advice is not really for newbies who are trying to get adapted but its good to hear this because that’s where you are headed.

Finally someone explains what satiety means that really makes sense to me, watch 55:46 where he explains what happens when they refine wheat to produce white flour.
Cheers @juice brilliant find! :wink:

(Running from stupidity) #205

Yeah, it really made it click for me, watching this.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #206

I’ll be even more specific: “don’t be afraid of fat” means you should be eating avocado, fish, eggs, etc. We all know that, right?

What it doesn’t mean is that you need to add tablespoon after tablespoon of butter to everything. You just don’t!

BPC is the most obvious offender (I know many of you love it; as a coffee lover and a rational human being I cannot for the life of me see the appeal, and yes I’ve tasted it!) but there’s many others.

I’m guilty of this myself often enough, so I’ll give an example: when I make scrambled eggs, I can oil my cast iron pan up with a smidgen of butter or olive oil, or I can put a tablespoon or more of butter in the pan. Mmmmmm butter. Delicious. Once it’s melted, I might even sip a bit of it up. Yum! But it makes nearly no difference to the taste of the eggs. That’s hundreds of unnecessary calories. I mean, completely pointless – unless, of course, you’re not satiated after 3 scrambled eggs (and I am.) This is one of the classic ways I eat past satiety – by adding fat where it’s totally unnecessary.

Hope this helps someone.

(michelle) #207

Hello Grinch lol…the back drop behind you looks like you may be in Costa Rica?

(Bob M) #208

“respectfully, nobody has said that a newbie should be eating 75% of their calories from fat.”

Actually, the 2 keto dudes say this with every single podcast. They say <20 grams carbs, “moderate” protein (whatever that is), and the rest of calories from fat. That sounds like 75% calories from fat to me.