Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #1

If you’re normal weight, your macros might be 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carbs.

If you have a lot of fat to lose, you’re unlikely to be eating 75% fat calories. Your protein will probably be MUCH higher as a percentage of your total calories, and your fats will be substantially lower as a percentage of total energy.

Phinney and others have said precisely this, time and time again. That’s because you’re burning body fat for fuel.

It’s fine to tell newbies not to be afraid of fat, but they all seem to be under the impression that they have to be eating all this dietary fat for LCHF. It’s simply not — necessarily — correct.

EDIT: If you’re a newbie, keep things simple: no sugar, no starches. Eat meat and fish and oils to satiety. The rest of your meal plan doesn’t require counting calories or carbs, just click here for your permissible food list and the limits on certain calorie-dense foods like dairy:

That’s the link everyone should be clicking on, so here it is again. There’s a reason Taubes put it in the appendix to his seminal, world-changing book, Why We Get Fat:

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(Amir Nachmany) #2

Is there any option to be on Ketosis without maintain macros ratio of 70-80% fats??


Ketosis is from the low carbs, not the high fat. That’s not to say fats shouldn’t be high, they should as this is a high fat diet, but as @gabe said the answer to every question isn’t “Eat more fat”. That CAN be the correct answer, but I think he’s getting to the point where it’s becoming noticable that it being the answer to everything has almost become a reflex at this point.


Great video on how simple keto is but how overcomplicated people make it:

(Edith) #5

This is the link to the video where Stephen Phinney shows a graph of how fat intake changes as weight loss approaches goal weight.

(Edith) #6

Your macros might be that without ingesting 80% of your calories from fat if you are utilizing your own fat stores.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #7

Thanks to all the supportive comments so far. “Fat bombs” are unnecessary. “Macros” are bullshit. It’s so simple: cut out starches and sugars. Eat when you’re hungry. Stop when you’re full. THAT’S IT.

(Brian) #8

After seeing a lot of Facebook chatter on various groups, I do think people tend to really overthink keto. For most, it really doesn’t have to be that complicated.

(Ken) #9

Of course very high fat is unnecessary, and is “Nutty Keto Dogma”. 60% is perfectly fine, as is 35% protein. Why do you think so many people stall? Two thirds meat to one third fat, by weight. It’s much easier to sustain fat loss, with no need for fasting. Eat all the fat you want, but don’t expect to lose body fat if you eat a high macro.

(Kaiden) #10

On the other hand, isn’t Carl Franklin doing a 90% fat diet and losing weight?

(Ken) #11

Sure, you can. You could also just have your jaw wired shut.

(Pete A) #12

Advising to up fat is one of many misconceptions hawked as “advice” to newbies by ketomaniacal folks. Watch the carbs (however many work for you without an appetite increase) and keep it simple.

Most of my 75 pound weight loss happened at around 60-65% fat as @240lbfatloss said. I generally stay around 70% now, but am hardly married to that as the secret to success.

Its not a complicated way to live.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #13

Like myself, Carl has been plateaued for a long time. Now that could be our current homeostasis, and that may be why we’re stalled while eating ad libitum meat and fat. Certainly I’m a bit more liberal with the fats and oils than I was when I started, but not crazily so.

But for newbies, they get super confused with the “macros.” Macros are crap. I bet when I was dropping the bulk of the weight 2 years back (over just 10 weeks — as you all know, it happens quickly!) my fat was probably under 50%. That’s a guess but it’s very unlikely it was much higher. My carbs were also quite substantial compared to what they are today — I was dropping fat rapidly while eating a couple of mangos a day. Low carb compared to my sugar burning self, but high carb compared to my diet today.

Point being, keep it simple for the newbies!!!

(Cathy) #14

Eating a low carb, moderate protein means eating high fat. That is because high fat is defined as eating the majority of calories in fat. if a person is eating 20g of carbs and 60g of protein, that accounts for 320 calories. Clearly this in insufficient on many levels. That means that fat must be high. It does account for more than double the calories so generally it is not much in the way of ‘bulk’ but should be satisfying. Many newbies come from a conventional way of thinking and are reticent to eat the fat and choose lower fat options like chicken breast or lean fish. This clearly can be counter productive.

The other stumbling block can be that the body is not great at using body fat for energy due to insulin resistance and that can mean that fatigue can become crippling for those who are not eating fat freely and are insulin resistant to the effect that body fat is not available.

IMO, newbies should be advised to eat fat to their appetite and also to learn to pay attention to that appetite. It is key to long term success.

(Linda) #15

I approve this post. I lost my 50 pounds without paying any attention at all to macros. Just keeping carbs below 15 keeps me in perpetual ketosis no matter how much protein I eat.

My problem is that I’ve hit the set point that my body is really reluctant to to break through. Upping the fat and lowering the protein, and IF gave me 3 more pounds off, but now I’m sitting still again, even with this change. I frankly don’t know if I’m up for restricting things even more, even if I sit at this too high weight for the rest of my life. My diabetes is reversed and I’m doing 100 percent better in so many ways, I’m still happy. I do know that ketosis doesn’t automatically mean weight loss.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #16

Exactly! I don’t think we’re disagreeing. It’s just that newbies keep thinking they should hit a macro. Whereas if they counted their fat calories (and they SHOULDN’T!), they’d probably find that they’re reaching satiety at a much lower level of fat. As per Phinney above. They’re making up the fat by burning body fat.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #17

I’m at a similar point, as I think we’ve discussed on other threads. I’m quite convinced that we’ve reached the point where we kind of have to accept that this is where our hormonal homeostasis is. Maybe it’ll drop slowly over the next couple of years.

(Kaiden) #18

I’m not too sure about that. Appetite dysregulation is likely to be… big. Eating to numbers might be better.

My best advice is to find a plan you’re pretty sure you can stick to and follow it dogmatically.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #19

Let me start by saying I love Keto - four months and I’m at maintenance and feel great. However, being a newbie, I spent the first three months trying to pack in fat, and more fat, and more fat. The result? My first three months were a GI trainwreck. But I survived. I now know that I can eat fats in whole food, like avocados, walnuts, olives. But oils and dairy, forget it!!! I don’t even check my fat macros anymore - I know I’m way under most folks here. Same thing with eat more salt!!! At one point I was up to 8 or 9 grams a day, and resembled a blowfish!! That happened because I was a saltaholic pre-keto, and just thought I needed more.

(Brian) #20

I’ve been on this journey for about a year. I have about 20 pounds or so to go till I’m at my goal weight.

The first 50 pounds went quick. It almost melted off. But the last 10 pounds have taken months. The last to come off doesn’t come off nearly as easily as the first. Honestly, I’m just fine with that, call it my journey to a “soft landing”. I fully intend to sneak up on that last couple of pounds and gradually find my weight range surrounding that number. It may take me another year to get all the way there. Know what? I don’t care. To my way of thinking, that’s a lot less traumatic that way. I figure that my eating will, at that point, be pretty much a habit that will be working just fine.