Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

[CatGirl]

Whatever you’re doing really works for you. Awesome job!

[Dread1840]

Even dexa scans are inaccurate.

[Bellyman]

Atkins didn’t talk about macros, they focused on what foods to eat and what foods to avoid. And guess what, the foods to mainly eat were meat and non-starchy vegetables, not fucking bulletproof coffees.

Thank you!!!

(Is there a little emoji thingy for a standing ovation??)

Now, tell us what you really think. LOL!!! Seriously, great line.

[Dread1840]

There isn’t one. Every method is imperfect.

[Ketokellie]

Iv never hit my fat macro or any of my other ones for that matter- I just make sure I stay under 20g carbs, I don’t track fat or protein and I’ve lost 40 pounds in 6 months . I also do eat the same thing every day and I have for a couple months now - eggs and pork chops for the win! Also keeps my grocery bill extremely low I’m skinny but my wallet is fat

[Janie]

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but old-school plans like Atkins didn’t talk about macros, they focused on what foods to eat and what foods to avoid. And guess what, the foods to mainly eat were meat and non-starchy vegetables, not fucking bulletproof coffees.

I’m a long-time Atkins dieter from the 70’s. In fact, a year ago after Thanksgiving I went back to low carb because I’d never heard of “keto” or “macros”. I don’t watch TV and not on social media so was clueless until a friend suggested this forum and to look into keto.

So glad I did! I never got into the macro thing - just kept my carbs under 20 ala Atkins - but the best thing FOR ME was the permission keto gave me to eat fat and enjoy a BPC. That was why Atkins never worked for me long term. I got tired of the eggs and hamburger patties and lack of flavor and variety fat gives you and I was still programmed by the media to avoid fat.

I also never understood the science behind insulin so I was snacking all day on low carb foods and couldn’t access my fat stores so eventually gave up.

[gabe]

What do you suggest is a more accurate and available body composition analysis tool than DEXA?

Actually, I’m going to answer your question to @Dread1840 in the other direction – I’ve had a DEXA, and it’s interesting, but frankly the US Navy Body Fat Calculator is an equation that is pretty damn accurate enough for most people. Certainly not as accurate as DEXA but also certainly close enough!

I actually didn’t run the calculation on the same day I did my DEXA, which perhaps I should have, but it’s a perfectly fine back of the envelope calculation and I’d tell anyone that you can base your daily protein max on these numbers.

[Bellyman]

frankly the US Navy Body Fat Calculator is an equation that is pretty damn accurate

I’ve seen that one before and always did appreciate that it was a little more comprehensive than the typical BMI calculator.

Having never had a DEXA scan, there’s nothing I have personally that I could compare. Definitely interesting, though.

[akirby83]

I got a MASSIVE difference between most body fat calculators (12-13%) and DEXA (25%!!!).

The problem with body fat percentage calculation is fat distribution. You can have a pretty lean waist like me, but I have a big ass and thighs for a skinny white guy.

I definitely look closer to pictures of 12% than pictures of 25%. But it’s highly possible that everyone’s perception of accurate bf% calculation is completely wrong.

[brownfat]

Whole body MRI is better than DEXA. But it isn’t commonly available for body composition analysis and silly expensive.

[brownfat]

I got a MASSIVE difference between most body fat calculators (12-13%) and DEXA (25%!!!).

Me too.

[Ketodaisy]

Wow, according to that calculator, a month ago I would have been considered obese. I’ve never been in the obese range in my life. Overweight range a few times, but never even close to obese. Even as it sits now, I’m at 31%, which is 1 percent away from obese.

[Regina]

US Navy Body Fat Calculator i

Well, that’s depressing!

[OldDoug]

I think the Navy calculator worked out pretty well for me, though if anything I’d say it assumes quite a bit of muscle. No argument on the Obese, but I weighed 183 lbs when I was 18, and was not ultra-‘cut,’ so I’d say I have more fat and less lean mass.

[Janie]

No kidding!

Says I am Obese and my lean mass is 86 lbs.

[gabe]

Yep I’m obese on the US Navy Body Fat Calculator too. The Navy doesn’t [spoiler]fuck[/spoiler] around!

[PaulL]

I think where this whole keto thing has gone off the rails is the whole concept of macros to begin with. It’s done nothing but create neuroses in people. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but old-school plans like Atkins didn’t talk about macros, they focused on what foods to eat and what foods to avoid. And guess what, the foods to mainly eat were meat and non-starchy vegetables, not fucking bulletproof coffees.

You are absolutely right about macros. The whole rationale behind eating to macros is that the body cannot be trusted to get it right, despite millions of years of evolution, so we need to try to out-think it for its own good. This never works, but a lot of people seem to feel deprived if they can’t do fancy calculations. The idea behind “eat fat to satiety” is to listen to our bodies, and that idea seems to get lost in the equation somehow.

Since a lot of newcomers are stuck in calorie-restriction mode, and have been taught to fear fat besides, there is nothing wrong with telling those people to increase their fat intake, as long as they are also being told to keep their carb intake low, to keep their protein intake moderate, and to eat fat to satiety.

Of course, we are also seeing newcomers lately who are trying valiantly to meet some arbitrary fat target that has them gagging on fat well past the point of satiety, and those people need to be told to stop eating when they stop being hungry. As with the weight-normalization quotation I am so fond of, it can be said that keto is not an all-you-can-eat diet, but an all-you-have-appetite-for diet.

I find that eating to satiety is the key. Now that keto has restored my satiety signaling, I lose interest in food well before the point of filling my stomach to bursting, and even though I have plenty of room for more food, I have to stop eating because I don’t want any more. When I was a sugar-burner, the opposite was true: I could only stop eating once I got to the point where my stomach was literally going to split open if I tried to cram in anything more, and yet I would still be ravenous. The best message I got from Drs. Phinney, Attia, Lustig, et al. was that if I kept my carb intake low enough, I could trust my body to tell me when I had had enough. It seems to work; my weight is pretty stable, despite days when I want more food, and days when I want less.

[Happyheart]

I still say fat is the best part of my meal. When you are keeping carbs really low, and trying to keep protein relatively low, then that leaves fat to fill in the blanks.
I do not count macros, but I do consciously add fat to my meals. I do not, nor advocate eating, until stuffed. (Gluttony does have consequences.) But I am troubled by the many people who still think calories is a reasonable way to control the diet. The more I learn of what a calorie measures, the less relevant I think they are. Our bodies don’t burn our food they use the energy contained to energize all our different processes. And those foods affect our hormones. Fat seems to affect the hormones the least as far as fat storage is concerned. So yes we want to burn the excess fat off our bodies by not eating too much, but at least in my experience, our bodies are able to let us know how much food we need, if we are not keeping the insulin levels up all the time.
And people who are starting need to know that it is okay to eat fats to where they are not hungry. I may stop just short of full, but if I’m feel hungry a short time later, I will eat more, and usually it will include fats.
I have been at maintenance for about a month (yet still have lost a few pounds) so I probably eat More fat than I did mid way through. Total weight loss was ~ 70 pounds. Size 16/18 to size 6/8.

[ComfortFreak]

I have to say, I think the OP was bad advice for a “noob” like me. We aren’t fat adapted yet. Our body isn’t yet ready to tap those fat reserves which is why we have to force the production of ketones until our body has adapted to using them as fuel. Anything else just winds up being a low calorie diet which decreases overall metabolism.

I eat when I’m hungry (if I try to restrict calories, weight loss stops) so I consume 2000-2200 calories. I restrict my total intake of carbohydrates and protein. I track my food to keep tabs on my carbs and protein and it turns out that my fat is right around 75%. This is probably why we’re advised to start off at these ratios.

My assumption is, that once I become “fat adapted” or able to efficiently metabolize ketones my body will recognize my fat stores as fuel and I will not be as hungry. AT THAT POINT fat will become a smaller % of my lower caloric daily intake of food. I suspect I have a couple more weeks to go.

[ComfortFreak]

Gabe, looking at Phiney’s diagram (which just about describes me to a T) I’d be eating only 1300 calories per day on induction. NO THANK YOU! I’d be f-ing starving all day long. I’m on day 11, having cranked down my carbs and protein I’m hungry and weak because my body is struggling to be able to use these ketones as fuel. I’m eating when I’m hungry and one day (hopefully soon) my body will begin to “see” my fat stores as fuel and I will be less hungry. And guess what? I’m still losing weight every day.

…1300 calories lmao