Sous Vide, Plastic and Estrogenic Activity


#1

With the recent completion of the Christmas holiday, I found our family was the recipient of not only a new Anova precision cooker, but also a Food Saver Vacuum Sealer. I was pretty excited because I had only heard great things about Sous Vide cooking and my wife (who is a chef) had bragged about how prefect sous vide dishes turned out.

So naturally I started looking at recipes for Sous Vide dishes and saw some great ones, but then I came across this article:
http://nomnompaleo.com/post/12463202060/cooking-sous-vide-plastic-safety

And it brought up the fact that cooking in plastic can have harmful developmental effects due to the leeching of Estrogenic-like chemicals that can cause hormone disruption, into food that contacts the plastic.

The above article was written because of the recent completion of this study:

Some plastics are much worse than others, and exposing the plastic to “stresses” (sunlight, microwaves and heat) caused in increase in the leeching effect.

I understand that Sous Vide cooks at relatively low temperatures, but according to Table 1 in this study 71% of all samples tested had detectable levels of EA (Estrogen Active) compounds. With 100% of food wrap and 97% of Plastic Bags testing positive. Estrogenic Activity is the reason so many products are listed as BPA free.

I stopped using plastic in my microwave for this very reason, and now I’m having second thoughts on Sous Vide. Reading the article from nom nom paleo, even silicon bags are susceptible to the leaching effect. Has anyone come across any studies to the contrary? Until proven safe, I may to use mason jars to get started, but that kind of defeats the purpose of sous vide.

To top it all off, according to the study, almost all of the plastics tested could be made EA compound free, but most are not currently. Above all they say that EA compounds are most harmful to children and since my wife and I are expecting our first, I’d really like to know that the food we are eating isn’t poisoned. But its almost impossible to avoid, Almost all food you buy comes in some form of plastic bag or wrap or package.

Has anyone found any research to the contrary? What are your thoughts on this? Has anyone tried Sous Vide with Mason Jars? Does that defeat the purpose of Sous Vide?


Silicone Mats vs. Parchment Paper
(Guardian of the bacon) #2

Haven’t even plugged mine in yet. How would that work in a mason jar. Seems like an air space in the jar would defeat the purpose. If you eliminated the airspace with liquids you would leach out a lot of good stuff.


(AnnaLeeThal) #3

To be honest I am being a little choosy about the dietary things I am focusing on. This is one I am not going to worry about. To me it’s more about the big picture and my whole reason for doing Keto: not following the path of being very sick with diabetes my genetics want me to be.

Sure, environmental toxins are important to avoid, but I would drive myself mad if I tried to be perfect about plastics. I’m going to enjoy my sous vide and my food saver and use them as a tool to keep me on track with Keto, just like I use fast food occasionally and 99% dark chocolate. I won’t be cooking every meal sous vide, and I’m not going to worry that I’m poisoning myself every time I make a sous vide meal.

ETA: this is MY approach to dietary sanity. If this is a big concern for you by all means make that decision based on your own research and risk/benefit assessment.


#4

That’s kind of how I feel, but i’m thinking it would still cook extremely evenly, albeit, not quite as nutrient dense. You’d definitely want to use some kind of liquid or oil in Mason Jar. But I think it would still be very healthy since you’d only have to fill the void that the dish didn’t. Plus you get the added bonus of not creating extra waste.


#5

THAT is the big question. Are the benefits from the extra nutrients that you get from Sous Vide cooking greater than the risks of problems from the EA compounds that leeched into the food during cooking.

And ultimate that is the answer/research I’m looking for.


#6

From the Comments in Modernist Cuisine:
http://modernistcuisine.com/2013/03/is-it-safe-cook-plastic/

If you still have concerns, mason jars are a viable option… i’ve done cheesecakes and pickles in mason jars sous vide.

Sous vide is a commercial restaurant technique, with the home version of circulators now make the technique for busy parents like myself accessible. If you have eaten at a restaurant chances sous vide was some part of the technique used to prepare your meal, even Chipotle uses sous vide for barbacoa and carnitas.


#7

Here is another article I found from the Pacific Northwest Pollution Prevention Resource Center, basically stating that there hasn’t been any research into the leeching effect during sous vide cooking specifically.

http://pprc.org/index.php/2013/p2-rapid/do-plastic-chemicals-leach-into-food-from-sous-vide-sv-cooking/

So far the bottom line (that I gather) is that all plastics leech chemicals into our food. Whether those chemicals are harmful, we don’t really know. I hoping to find more information. Thanks for the article @GeMoose23


(AnnaLeeThal) #8

Exactly. And this is why I tend to focus on things that cause me known harm.


(jketoscribe) #9

My problem with the “known harm” theory is this:. Testing has demonstrated that a huge percentage of people tested (91 -99% in this article: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2012/185731/) have BPA and other similar EA substances in their bloodstreams, urine, and breast milk, even amniotic fluid (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22516041). And whatever else you can say about it, IT DOESN’T BELONG THERE. So even if it turns out to be perfectly benign, something is not right. And a growing body of evidence suggests it is NOT benign.

I’m working really hard to eliminate as much plastic as I can from my kitchen. That has definitely given me pause when considering sous vide.

I have a hand held vacuum sealer with Ball jar attachments–the sealer cost $19 and the jar attachments about that much again (for wide and narrow mouth jars), and if that would work in a sous vide I’d be interested in trying it. But I will not cook food in plastic and become a human guinea pig.


#10

According to the first linked article, there are some (more expensive?) brands that claim to be safe because they don’t contain EAs or BPAs. Was there something else that proved this part wrong? I’m leery about cooking in plain plastic bags myself. In fact, I let leftovers cool before bagging them up. I have some Ziploc branded sous vide bags that I was going to use for experiments before I bought a proper cooker. I wonder if they are designed with chemical leeching in mind?


(Erin Macfarland ) #11

Geez just when you think you have it figured out…I got a sous vide for Christmas and I have a Food Saver that I use. Now I’m paranoid!


(jketoscribe) #12

Well, if you read the Nom Nom article, she thinks that Food Saver bags are pretty safe as they are mostly nylon.

I’m just not sure.


#13

So here is a great FAQ I found. It was put together by the PlastiPure company, who’s goal is to rid plastic products of EA chemicals. (like everything produced by a company that stands to have financial gain, I take everything they say with a grain of salt, but their intentions appear to be honest)
http://www.plastipure.com/faqs/

A couple points that I thought were very prevalent:
“Elastomers such as latex, silicone, and synthetic rubbers can leach significant amounts of EA.”
and “Softer plastics such as polypropylene or polyethylene are not as likely to leach as much EA as untested harder and clearer plastics such as polycarbonate (PC), polystyrene (PS), or polyether sulfone (PES).”

I believe Food Saver bags are mostly polyprepylene? So in general they are safer than other types of plastic.

Finally,

This was the best article I came across that had all the potential effects of ingesting to many EA chemicals. I examined many of the links on his page and they all checked out and were linked to real studies. Admittedly I haven’t been able to review the studies.


#14

Thanks! I’m going to have to do some serious reading before I commit to doing more than dipping my toes into sous vide. Not literally my toes in the water. … then again maybe that would feel good too. :wink:


#15

Hence the reason I’m here! Most Ketonians are science driven and I figured who better than them to tackle this concern! The problem that I’m running into is that there just hasn’t been much research into it. The more I think about it, the more I realize that it is impossible to avoid! Almost all the meat I buy comes it styrofoam and clear wrap (supposedly two of the worst offenders) and at some point every morsel of food that touches my mouth has come into contact with plastic at some point in the supply chain! (cutting boards, plastic bags, storage containers, Fridge drawers, plastic cartons, plastic cups and the list goes on!)


(jketoscribe) #16

Very true, but there’s a difference between somewhat unavoidable purchase of food in plastic and cooking food in plastic which is entirely avoidable.


(Dustin Ewers) #17

Don’t sweat this one.

Most of the bags you’re going to use for sous vide do not contain BPA. Using sous vide bags, food saver bags, and high quality ziplock bags should be safe. I cook sous vide all the time with no ill effects. Honestly, I feel like most of the anti-plastic stuff is just fear mongering.

Here’s a more complete guide to food safety using sous vide:


#18

I was debating on posting that article myself, but it didn’t have many sources to back up their claims. The problem is, per the linked study above, its not just BPA that is an issue. All plastics leech the same type of chemicals that made BPA the bad guy, Including the replacements companies are using in their products.

The “ill-effects” that most concern me are not short term , otherwise people would be getting sick all the time. Its the long term effects that concern me, something Ketoers understand more than most.

Just as eating processed carbs won’t immediately cause disease, they can make you sick given enough exposure (as evidenced by our populations decreasing health).

That’s the research I’m looking for. What are the long term effects of having hormone like chemicals in our bodies for most of our lives?


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #19

I KNEW sous vide was the devil @richard!!!

Lol. (I have a long and sordid relationship with sous vide. A year ago I was booted from a group when I pointed out their chicken was raw. they were sous vide newbies.)


#20

lols. Newbs. I really want to find out how safe it really is, because Sous Vide is convenient, impossible to beat the consistency and a very nutritious (provided its not poisoning us) way to cook!