So which is it? Macros vs Satiety

(John) #1

Started keto/IF 17 days ago. I’d say I’m 16/8 but if I’m not hungry in the afternoon I just wait until supper to eat, which has been most days. I eat when I’m hungry and don’t if I’m not. This has resulted in me not getting to my macro numbers. I’m averaging about 1000 calories a day. High of 1400, low of 650 calories.

I feel fine. My only issue has been a struggle with what I consider slow GI tract transit and incomplete bowel movements. I’ve ordered some magnesium citrate to hopefully address the issue.

So I’ve lost close to 17lbs. in 17 days. The internet would have me believe my hair is going to fall out and my metabolism is going to shut down from exceeding a 20% deficit in calories. I also know many people let their hunger guide their calorie intake without any injury.

So what is it? Adhere to macro’s or trust my bodies appetite?

Generated by Keto Calculator 9.13

53/M/5’4" | CW 230 | 39% BF | Mostly sedentary

  • 1583 kcal Goal, a 20% deficit. (746 min, 1978 max)
  • 20g Carbohydrates
  • 99g Protein (84g min, 139g max)
  • 123g Fat (30g min, 166g max)

Also this is my first post here and would just like to say “Hello” to everyone. Looks like y’all have a great community here.

(Alec) #2

Hi, and welcome!!

You ask a great question, and there will be differing opinions. Mine though is clear: it is satiety. The reason that some might say don’t undereat some kind of calorie “goal” is to prevent impacting your metabolism while you become fat adapted. Some people are ravenously hungry when they go keto as they cannot access their bodyfat as they already have high base insulin.

You sound like you don’t, in that your body is not telling you to eat more. In this case, go with what your body is telling you. Eat to satiety.

Also, early days, don’t worry too much about the fat/protein balance. Just don’t stress about eating too much or too little fat, it is not that important. Just keep the carbs low, eat to satiety, and eat real food. That’s all there is to it.

KCKO!

#3

If I’m not particularly hungry I still prioritise protein - fat I don’t worry so much about. Appetites wax & wane so it’s natural to cycle calories.

(Carl Keller) #4

My vote is also for satiety. One of the greatest lessons LCHF has taught me is how my hunger is supposed to behave and how to have a healthy relationship with it. Once I cut out processed foods and started eating real food, my cravings vanished and I started to get hungry once or twice a day, instead of the every 3-4 hours I was used to on the SAD.

Macros can give you a good idea of what you should be eating but your hunger hormones are far better at knowing what exactly what you need. If it’s more or less than the macro says then so be it. Being hungry or overeating to satisy a number is not going to help you be healthy. The more you practice eating to satiety, the better you will get at it. The key is to avoid sugar and starch because those things interfere with satiety signals.

(John) #5

Thank you. There just seems to be so much pressure not to under-eat your macros for “health reasons”. Your recommendation seems very sensible.

(John) #6

My intuition is to trust my body and eat to satiety but I want to make sure it is not counterproductive. Thank you, your opinion helps to reinforce my own in this matter.

(Alec) #7

There is a lot of poor advice and misinformation around keto all over the place. On these forums most of the advice you will get is pretty good… even the contradictory stuff! There are lots of opinions and experiences here, and people think different things. But in general, the advice here is good.

In your situation I would be listening to your hunger signals carefully. Don’t try to undereat in any way. If you are hungry, eat, if not, don’t. Simples.

(Carl Keller) #8

I was so used to being hungry all the time, coming off a lifetime on the SAD, that it was a leap of faith to trust my body at first. But I am glad I took it. For the first time in my life, I can say I have complete control of my hunger. After eating a good LCHF meal, I can easily go 12-18 hours without eating and the only hunger I have now is very polite.

(John) #9

K.I.S.S, got it! Story of my life…

(less is more, more or less) #10

Another vote for satiety.

There are legitimate reasons to understand macros, but we’re also not cells in a petri dish. I follow Dr. Westman’s Page 4 approach, which doesn’t give a wit about macros. Way back then, I carefully tracked everything I ate and calculated macros, more out of skepticism, early on, but now I wing it living off the page 4 recommendations. FWIW, when I tracked and followed page 4 my protein macros were very high (compared to mainstream low-carb guidance) but my MOST CRITICAL metric REMAINS 20 total grams of carbs. That, you’ll find, is also debated here. It’s all good, though. Know thyself.

(John) #11

Kind of an odd story: I haven’t been particularly hungry since I started keto save one time in the evening a couple days ago. It hit me like a freight train, I would have fought someone for food at that very moment, I’m not going to say it was a panic attack (I’ve never had one) but it was weird. I headed to the kitchen and had a couple spoonfuls of almond butter and that did the trick but for a moment there if hadn’t had food in the fridge and if I owned any pets their lives would have been in mortal danger :slight_smile:

(John) #12

I will investigate Dr. Westman. Sounds like he might resource for me. Thank you!

(less is more, more or less) #13

He’s one of the low-carb granddaddies, along with Dr. Phinney (with whom have collaborated on multiple studies) and Dr. Volek, Tim Noakes, etc. There’s a ton of evidence-based, non-scamming luminaries from whom you can learn.

A version of Page 4 is here:

#14

My vote is for “Actual Satiety rather than merely Enzyme Depletion”.

This is because many folks switching over to LCHF/keto have messed up GI tracts and enzyme issues (due to longterm industrial foods, and antibiotics overuse or other longterm medication) that are more extreme than if one was merely coming from a land-based culture’s eating background. In some cases, it’s just the lack of enzymes that is seeming like satiety/fullness but is actually some kind of bloat. But fortunately, by not eating, we give the GI tract a break and the body is encouraged to start making the new enzymes it needs eventually. You can also boost your pro-enzyme capacity (Ginger - fresh or in dry capsules is a fantastic digestive ally - and/or eating fermented foods like sauerkraut) and - boom! - the ability to eat one more nutrient-dense meal per day happens. Some people take isolated enzymes supplements but those are very pricey and can lead to supplementation-dependency rather than to organic enzyme production.

In the book Protein Power by the Drs Eades, they talk about the significance of enzyme changeover, and how the body will eventually make the enzymes needed to deal with all the fat. However, if the non-desire to eat 2-3 meals a day persists beyond a few days, they recommend boosting your enzyme production capacity because there is/was some kind of benefit to not eating OMAD related to spreading carbs around rather than at one sitting.

OTOH, if one’s interested in the expedited approach of Dr. Fung’s or Dr. Atkin’s fat-fasting method for the obese and/or those with sluggish GI tracts - either total fat-fasting or reduced food intake with 5 feedings of 85-90% fat - from 24 hours to several days - can also help speed the body’s digestive health restoration and hormonal balancing.

I went the Ginger route, and found it made it possible for me to keep up my protein/nutrients intake during my fat-adaptation and beyond. I also always have a stronger appetite in the hours after super-slow strength training.

(John) #15

Thank you for that. I love that he promotes salad greens. There seems to be a anti-fiber sentiment growing in the low carb community that I just don’t get. I will delve deeper.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #16

Keto and Carnivore are two distinct approaches to the same thing, Carnivore seems to help people with some chronic GI issues like IBS, Leaky Gut, and Crohn’s Disease …

Different things work for different people, we’re all individuals. For some fiber is a problem. :cowboy_hat_face:

(John) #17

I have Libby’s sauerkraut in the cupboard. I’ll add it to my next couple of meals. Thanks for the idea.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #18

You need live sauerkraut for probiotics. I make it at home, it’s easy. :cowboy_hat_face:

(John) #19

says the Sous Chef!

jk…good idea. I’ll find a recipe.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #20

Hahaha, anyone who posts a recipe as a topic can get the Sous chef badge, I don’t call myself that! Anyway this is an easy place to check out some stuff, I enjoy the kitchen and the food science but it’s really easy to do. :man_cook:t3:

Have fun. :cowboy_hat_face: