“Slaptember!” Challenge

#182

Still cool here but longer sunlit days. Planted another tree in the food forest. Might have to get some pigs to eat the falling fruit and convert the food forest into pork! It’s still good to plant trees and I can trade the fruit and nuts for animal-based foods in the community web. Planted two gum trees for timber in about 15 years time down at the low end of the property.

Breakfast at 1:30pm - yup, steak, organ meat sausage and two eggs cooked in suet. It seems the mackerel has gone missing now from the plan. Fried salted suet is yummo.

Cooking some chicken wings on the wood fire now. I’ve got a kilo in the fridge (of suet) to get through. Does anyone have any suet storage tips?

The satiety almost feels heavy. A voice in my head keeps saying “you are strong, go and lift that heavy thing”. I think my gut biota have changed and they’ve rigged up a phone line to my brain.

#183

It’s weekend so Alvaro does the cooking. He spent some minutes of pure work baking the 1.9 kg pork chop… And then managed to spend 4.5 hours on cooking the vegetable soup and the vegetable side dish for the pork. On open fire and in big quantities but still :smiley: It’s almost continuous work. 1 hours just to peel and cut the vegetables… I sooooooooooooooo don’t miss that part. Vegetable dishes often took a ton of time and the result was only extremely tasty (and satisfied some need I don’t think I have anymore) but not satiating. Exceptions were rare. And I always ate vegetable dishes before keto. Or egg/vegetable ones. It wasn’t trivial to get satiated but enough fat and protein always helped.

I am sure I will find a way to spend ages in the kitchen, no matter what but it’s my choice, not a need. I can eat so very simple now, it’s amazing. And as I don’t need much proper meat (the not cured and non-fish stuff), it’s easy to store enough for many meals in the freezer. Part of it is already cooked and in small enough portions. The raw ones are in small enough portions, I don’t forget my freezing time when I carved my big frozen beef chunk for minutes to get a few bites… :smiley: The chunk was for weeks, after all, I couldn’t defrost it.
I must have my cooked proper meat all the time (well, at mealtimes), I know that now, even if just in the freezer. I already feel anxious if any of my staples go low even if I have no real problems yet. It annoys me and that’s not good as I am vulnerable then.
I will be fine in the near future.

I will bring photos later :slight_smile: The pork isn’t very colorful (i will bake it a bit more tomorrow, it’s too dry anyway but we needed to bake it in one piece first) but the top is and it has tiny bacon pieces. And jelly :smiley: Jelly is so fun, I can’t have enough of it, well I almost never ate meat for decades so it’s still new to me but I doubt I ever get bored of it, I can’t do that with eggs (just very temporarily) and I heavily depend on them since a decade (and ate pretty much before too). Far from getting bored, I just love and want eggs more and more… Even boiled eggs are perfect wonders now and I never was into them so I can’t wrap my mind around this new development… I just couldn’t eat a ton of it at once. That’s good as it’s the nice and healthy way, I don’t even know how people can eat 20 eggs or way more. I always stopped at 10-12 for a whole day. 20 yolks would be a piece of cake (not literally… though cake is a way to use up 20 yolks for sure)…
But I need variety. I never would even make 4 scrambled eggs, too much from the same type. I usually make 2. or 1. Nowadays only with bacon and maybe fish. I am into boiled eggs now, strange. 4 disappears in no time. But I like variety so 2 is usually softer or pickled… And I put sausage and cheese on top… Egg is my bread. Except I never was into bread (and eggs are way better anyway)… I never liked sandwiches (now I do, egg sandwiches) and didn’t feel the need to eat bread with everything as many people do (like Alvaro in the past. he dropped the habit in his gluten free years without any difficulties. of course he used some other grains instead but still. I saw people devastated that they can’t eat gluten! and what.)

It’s basically summer in Hungary, with an autumn feeling due to shorter days and different route of the Sun but it’s still too hot during the day. Oh well, the times when I can go for some longer hiking and cycling is near!
Winter will come way, way, way later. We will have a loooooooooooooong Indian summer first! Autumn is my favorite season and it’s so long :smiley: Spring is the one that just doesn’t seem to happen every year, it’s so short sometimes so it failed the chance to be my fav.

Holidays? Well I decided I will bring egg sandwiches for Christmas dinner. I never liked the menu there anyway. But the little plain chicken breast (for Alvaro’s brother but there was enough for me too) was a nice new addition. I dislike chicken breast in general but talented people can make it edible and even kind of nice (I still wouldn’t buy any even if it would be cheap as liver or wouldn’t eat it every month). Eggs are still better and I would starve eating only the chicken breast so I bring my own food.
I am not sure I can pull off fasting on that day, is it considered rude not eating absolutely anything on a Christmas dinner? I wouldn’t care if I desired fasting but that probably won’t be the case. Well, eating mostly my own food may be problematic for Alvaro’s Mom but I won’t eat something not good tasting and bad feeling. She handled the situation when I didn’t eat rice and salad well enough. This year it’s time to be more aggressive with not-eating-that :slight_smile:

#184

Can you expand a bit on this? Just wondering on it.

Oh, I hit the net and got: Treat fresh suet like meat. Refrigerate and use in a few days, or freeze. Fresh suet freezes well, so don’t hesitate to buy more than you need at present, especially if you’ve had a hard time finding it fresh.

most of the responses are freezing in smaller cakes for convenience—it was the most common answer I saw on it.

Very smart to use the plants for bartering for meat products. You could score good in that situation :slight_smile:

Very interesting N=1 trying to test that Sat Fat causes weight loss
#185

yea it took me a bit also to give others time to accept my eating. Sad huh? I had to deal with others ABOUT my food but yea most of us do cause food/social/traditions and holiday times are like sacred to many LOL but you do you…sounds like you got a good plan going into those holidays later!!

and you know it is smart to work it out in your mind early what you are gonna do to handle situations and lock it into your brain…I did that so when the day came and I got any surprises about stupid old food on this day I had it covered…I had no surprises cause I knew how I was gonna react.

Family is used to me now HAHA they don’t blink on them eating what they want and me eating way different. Time and digging into what you want in your life are key to bringing the others around :wink:

I am learning I come first ya know…not in all things, like if family needs a kidney ain’t gonna say no and dig in and refuse to budge, but with the food I eat, oh yea I am dug in and no one is gonna change that ever about me! Me first in very personal issues in my life and I wont ever sway on that one.

#186

The satiety has more gravitas (not more gravy). @VirginiaEdie Edith got me thinking about suet and the stearic acid in that fat from around beef kidneys.

I understood satiety before from a mix of fats. It felt like I don’t have to eat for a few hours, maybe 16 or 20 hours. But the satiety from eating the suet fat as the base cooking fat makes me feel like I don’t ever have to eat again. In my n=1 it is a cure for hunger.

#187

WOW…you found a very personal sweet spot. Super cool.
but you watch out, cause we need to eat tho and eat well still cause in the end it can backfire on ya health wise. But of course you are eating well when you eat so :sunny: Happy your experiments and more are getting just great results you can truly act on ya know…all we can ask as we try to find our personal sweet spots for each of us!!

#188

It’s a good point Fangsy. But it is just a ‘feeling’ at the time of finishing a meal. The eating happens OMAD, or whenever I recognise hunger signals.

Being aware of it makes me extra aware that what I eat needs to be highly nutritious and bio-available just in case the hunger switches off.

(Edith) #189

Yeah, I have to say that eating beef cooked with suet satisfies my hunger and for longer than any other meat. I want to do a 24 hour fast tomorrow, so dinner will be heavy on the beef and suet.

(Polly) #190

I like your thinking. Orchard for raising pork sounds divine.

#191

Good for you. I can be tempted and lose in a heartbeat :smiley: Well, I train myself long term and I change. I can’t be tempted if I don’t like the food at all… Well, I can, I am complicated but still, it’s harder that way.

Oh I always ate what I wanted if I was very sure of it. I am super stubborn, I inherited it from my Mom (it was interesting when our stubbornness pointed into two different directions…). All my family was against me being a vegetarian (except Mom, fortunately. she did vegetarian meals most of the time before that anyway) but I was stubborn for 8 years, I just didn’t care :smiley: I stopped when I moved out so it was clear no one will try to feed me chicken every Sunday… And I tasted salmon for the first time. It’s super good raw but one needs fresh stuff for that.

Sometimes even meat is problematic and even pork, not just hake fish. I was not happy enough with it today. But I will bake it more tomorrow (that was the plan but I thought I eat the outer parts today). All slices must be coated with fat as it’s horribly lean otherwise but well, it’s pork chop for you… The fattier bites were better but most of it is way too lean. And I told Alvaro he can (totally MUST) forget about the garlic next time. And I normally like garlic. But it adds strange flavors, at least when it is roasted for more than 2 hours with the meat… Alvaro can’t remember not adding everything in the beginning. Or that I don’t want garlic anymore but I will be there. The water was too much as well but we get jelly so fine. And the bacon isn’t tasty, next time we will have stuff from the pig shop, it opens in a few days again.
Oh well, we will learn.

I so want to make experiments about what satiates me how well :smiley: Various protein sources this time as I experimented with various macros already and I know high protein can’t satiate me without enough fat and calories but the type of fat matters.
I am sure fatty meat would win, eggs are good too, it’s hard to test lean meat but I can add eggs… Fish seems not as good as mammals but I normally eat a variety of items so I am not completely sure. Not like I don’t change so it’s tricky… But I try to make the circumstances similar.

I go for OMAD (or fast days) in the next week, of course it’s up to my body (and mind too). But I had enough, eating is so troublesome and I am so addicted, it sounds nice to take some break. I don’t even want to think about what to eat. I have a very nice default carni day plan now.
And I definitely won’t complicate my life with eating without a need. I always forget this part and eat just because it’s lunchtime (3pm) and Alvaro came home… It takes time and effort to fully break this habit. Carni helped in the past, hopefully it will do it again.

(It seems I can’t stay away. But I have so many thoughts. And these are only the carni food related ones. I have thoughts about plants too.)

#192

beef and more beef LOL

ZC cruising along just fine.

Have to hit grocery for a few items, am going to check out seafood sales. I want crab legs. Never hit my restaurant so I think just putting some bucks into good crab legs might be the way I roll. I am just wanting some real bad now and if lucky, maybe lobster on sale? Not sure but will check. Need more sardines in my supply.

Hope everyone is thriving during Slaptember! So far so great here for me!!

(Kellyn ) #193

I lost another 2 pounds this week. That makes 30 pounds total! My husband cooked an eight pound pork roast that he got for $8. He has not eaten any which makes me think he cook the whole thing for me. I just can’t eat pork twice a day. I like beef way better. He cooked it with no seasoning so I am having to add some spices so I can eat it. I am trying to eat my beef patties for lunch and then the pork for dinner. I have come to realize though that if the beef patties are not fresh that I prefer them cold. Kelly Hogan has said this before, but I didn’t think it would become a preference of mine as well. Not sure I could add cold bacon grease to them :smirk:, but cold it definitely better than reheated. I have come to enjoy my coffee black. I did think about how nice it would be to have HWC in my coffee yesterday, but then I thought “maybe I am just still hungry”. I ate two more cold beef patties and the thought went away. For those that don’t know, I am avoiding dairy to heal my eczema. This last flare up has lasted longer than expected and I am wondering if the eggs I ate last week could also be causing a flare. I am going to avoid eggs this week and see if it improves my eczema.

#194

Heya Peeps!

Weekend was great here. Worked my arse off cleaning before our guests arrived. Friday, we still had our little Bible study group, but I just continued on with all of my chores quietly in the kitchen while I listened in. My husband ended up with a ton of dry foods from a closed restaurant, and since I don’t eat that sort of food myself, I just dry canned them and stuck them in the basement for later use. Saturday, I worked to clean up the guestroom, and let my youngest daughter make the bed. She announced that she was trained how to do military corners on beds and was perfectly qualified for the job after doing hotel housekeeping this summer. So, she rocked it. I made a few breakfast things- not knowing the eating habits of our guests- a couple types of muffins, and then 2 Keto egg-bakes. I giggled, because I didn’t actually have any bread in the house- if they wanted toast. LOL! )THEY LOVED THE EGG BAKE!!!) We took them all over the top part of the Keweenaw Peninsula - toured 2 historic mines, checked out the Devil’s Washtub, had dinner at the Mariner North, and then up to Brockway Mountain. Dinner was good- I wanted steak, but it was too early for their dinner menu, so I ended up with fish. It was good, but not terribly satisfying. Came home, and ate some ground beef. =)
I leave for the 6 day trip in just a bit here, so gotta pack. My plan is, steak and eggs- OMAD for the whole week. Might have a bit of cheese too, just to keep the fat up. And, I know this is wasteful, but I am buying small jars of dill pickles to drink the juice if I get muscle cramps or headaches. It’s quick, its easy, and frankly, I enjoy the taste now. On my way home Saturday, the plan is to stop at a restaurant supply store, and buy some big blocks of cheese. I bought a 5 pound block of cheese wax, and I want to try cheese preservation using the wax. I’m quite intrigued by these types of experiments, and preservation methods have been a hobby of mine - going back to my childhood. Going to hit Aldi’s too, buy some butter, and make ghee- just to see if I can. =) I need to educate myself on curing beef. I’ve done beef jerky over the years, but I confiscated the dehydrator to use in my shop for melting colored cocoa butter. So…gotta get another dehydrator.
Anyways…going to cook up some eggs, take Rufus for a run, and then pack. Gotta drive a few hours, get checked in at the hotel, then go to the location I’m working at and punch in by 2pm. Work goes until 10:30pm. Looking forward to learning something new!
Cheers to you all! Hoping OMAD goes well.
SB

#195

I start to miss beef (actually, red meat, I would be happy without beef all my time but I want mutton then :D). After 5 months… Oh well.

I feel very nice and I hadn’t a single carni meal yet. As I totally had to eat some carbs yesterday (the veggie dishes were awesome. and I am fine without them in the next days while Alv will eat them galore)… It’s day #1 after a very satiated low-carb OMAD day without tracking.

Probably the pork I ate had some good effects too, I actually usually feel it but it’s super calming to know about all the meat in my freezer. It was a tad stressful not to have any proper kind. Not like it’s proper but well, no farm around want to sell me fresh pork :frowning: It’s just for this time.

I feel very ready for a nice week. I expect little food as my body enjoys peace and quit now. It will probably change soon but now it’s nice not eating. I know my body so well now, I can distinguish between all the different signs urging me to eat. I got my “lunchtime!” alarm and around the same time, “I am empty” from my stomach but I am not really hungry and my body definitely doesn’t want any food, it’s regeneration time or something.
Having an OMAD day was great yesterday. No midnight meal, yay!

I am lazy to upload photos now. Or make new of my slightly burned pork. Still good, only the thin slices got too dark (oh, crunchy! I am fine with everything below charcoal anyway). It seems the extra 20 minutes at high temperature was too much… I will know it next time. We will learn how to make meat dishes, we already came a long way :smiley: Alvaro used different temperatures and whatnot and didn’t forget to add water… He added too much but lots of beautiful jelly happened so it’s fine :wink:

@SecondBreakfast: What is an egg bake? Nevermind, I googled it. WOW! I wanted to make some egg in water bath already (Peeling boiled eggs are a hassle, no matter how zillion tips I read, no one works if the eggs aren’t cooperative - or not hard-boiled but I like the yolk runnier… Poached eggs in onion soup are fine but I want the eggs without soup. But poaching them in plainer water isn’t right)… So it can be done with stirred eggs. I see people put almost absolutely everything in it… I won’t. Mmmm, so many things to try even on carnivore… Even with eggs… I have plans.
Your dill pickles are sugarless? Ours not :frowning: I saw a plain one once in my whole life. They have (very little) sugar or sweetener or both. And I can’t stand the sweetness. I still can use the juice to make pickled eggs as the sugar is diluted enough and the juice is great except the sugar part… But I keep it at the minimum. I probably will drop that soon, I don’t need the pickles or the juice, it’s just extremely tasty. Way above pork chop if such a comparison makes sense, it does to me. I need to figure out how to eat meat with vinegar (well it suits fish, it’s one of my plans. I can’t buy pickled fish as they have horrid sweeteners) as that would be the ultimate bliss :smiley: I love vinegar. Fried pork sausage with mustard is one of the best things but I can’t buy such type of homemade sausages and the bar is very high as I know what Really Good Fried Sausage is… I never forget. But normal meat is different. There must be a way to include vinegar. Or lemon. That’s one thing I refuse to part with, it’s a very basic ingredient in my kitchen. Sour things are the best except pork ribs and sausages. I always would have chosen a pickle over chocolate and I adored chocolate (not like I ever had to choose. but it would have been a no-brainer).
Now I am very fine with having a jar of pickles. I probably will even open it this year. Main thing I have it. It’s important for me. I like to have things. Being prepared. It’s scary to think about of some sudden desire towards pickles and NOT having them! (Not really, I am fine as long as I have mustard but it’s still nice.)

I got carried away, sorry. Mmmm, food. It starts to get even more tempting 22 hours after my last meal.

Still @SecondBreakfast… I love your experiments :smiley: I am too lazy for most or I just don’t really need them but I will try canning meat and I have a dehydrator I don’t use but I prefer my meat soft, usually… Well fine, I never ate jerky :smiley: Maybe it’s good and useful.

@KellynP: Congrats to the weight-loss! :smiley: I am very determined now myself. I will make it happen, enough from the fooling around. I avoid whipping cream (we have that as the fattiest) myself, if I manage to get off from coffee, even better but no… But the proper coffee brand and weakness makes drinking black coffee easy :slight_smile: And we can put things into it, butter, gelatin, eggs - okay I see that’s not an option for you now… And mixing it with a hand blender (or turmix but the hell will I wash that thing for a coffee)… I usually rather drink it black, only eggs are tasty enough but I still would miss the cream. It was nice while lasted but I was a slave to coffee and cream, I want to be free now.

(Kellyn ) #196

It took awhile to get used to the taste of black coffee, but I definitely agree that the right brand makes the difference. A lot of brands taste like ashtray to me. The only brand I have found I can drink right now is Gevalia Costa Rica coarse ground. I would love to experiment with other brands but I don’t want to spend money and find out that I do not like them. I am avoiding flavored coffees because I am not quite sure that what they are using as flavors are really good for me, plus without sweeteners or cream the flavor does not taste the same. What brand do you like black?

#197

:star_struck: super congrats and the beauty of it all is you eat til totally satisfied and the scale just falls into command! :laughing:

Very very happy on your success KP cause you are doing the ‘work’ behind transition into long term and finding your sweet spot at all times and that effort is never easy, but you make it seem easy LOL and you are doing so FAB!!

Pork is a weirdo. It can make or break many and while I ate the heck out of it early on, now it is a ‘thrid’ kinda go to for me. Pork intolerances are definitely a thing so as we progress we SO change our thoughts on pork OR WE thrive on it LOL but that is the beauty of zc again, we learn and grow and know.

Eggs contain lectins ya know. Bit off the net: All types of animal proteins are permitted, including eggs ; however, savvy consumers who are strictly zc might seek Lectin-Free , Pasture-Raised Eggs laid by hens that are fed a GRAIN-FREE diet.

So there is always an ‘egg intolerance’ for many on the zero carb plan. While carnivores grab eggs as all in animal kingdom and it is, the body could easily sort that down into ‘not good for this body’ so…you just work on that as you need.

You are doing so great and I am over the moon you are doing so good also KP!!

YOU GO GIRL literally cause you are so full of pizz and vingegar (from those pickle jars) HAHA that you are just rocking this way of life and making it FIT you and bobbing and weaving around ALL IT TAKES in an active life to achieve your goals of zc all the time and just working it. I appluad ya SB and hope you have a great work week on this work outing and do so good!!!

Yes, when we ‘treat people’ to ‘real food’ and what it entails LOL they love it…all the carby’s rave over the meat/fat/lifestyle on a plate and always enjoy yet we carnivores get it all the time :slight_smile: who knew, well we did HAHA

So glad your young DD is rockin’ it out of the park! Makes us feel so good when the kids improve and thrive and I know you put on a big smile for her!!

I get that, cause being older I missed all the photo life it has become on social whatever LOL but for me I was never a pic taker type anyway, bur I love crispy dark meat so any pic of good meat would make me happy!!

Thing is S if one wants freedom one has to go all in with an with elimination and it is the darn hardest step to take. Many wont and are not willing to go there but it can take SO MANY years to walk this path if one ‘goes easier on themselves’ and does baby steps into a lifestyle they might need as their best way but confusion kicks in as one can’t quite seem to get there. Just chatting out stuff in general ya know, cause as we all talk about what it takes for us and what needs to happen for our goals we learn new info about ourselves and that little but hard trail to follow ya know? :slight_smile: :wink:

Only the person wanting the change they want to happen can make it successful. What is that journey for each of us??? alot of ??s on that one LOL

(Edith) #198

I was helping out my ailing parents last night and they don’t have good carnivore food there, so I ate a HUGE lunch and decided to fast for 24 hours.

I made it to around the 20 hour mark and felt a little light headed when I got home, so I went ahead and ate: wagyu beef burger, chicken sausage, fried egg, beef suet, and my one ounce piece of raw beef liver. I am ready to tackle the day. :yum: I have a feeling my next meal won’t be until dinner.

On a side note: I did have to reimplement my calcium and magnesium supplements because I was getting restless legs at night and it was interfering with my sleep. Last night’s sleep was much better.

(Kellyn ) #199

Thanks, Fangs! :heart: This has been the easiest way to lose weight I have ever tried. This is my new way of eating. I can see in the future that I will have some dairy or alchol on special occasions, but the rest of the time it’s meat and water for this woman. :wink: I am loving seeing the changes in my body and the way that I feel.
The eggs I ate were from a family that has chickens so hopefully they were lectin free, but like you said, my body may not agree with eating them. At least where my eczema is concerned.

(Patty W) #200

Congrats on the loss! What a considerate husband you have. I hadn’t thought about the hot/cold burger situation before but I think you might be on to something. However I did notice that reheated protein tastes better to me if I warmed it up in my air fryer instead of the microwave. I’ve been a big egg & dairy person with my keto, & it has been interesting to observe the changes as I am doing the beef, salt, & water version of carni this month, & I do see the skin changes & weight coming off easier without them (at least the dairy). I haven’t yet worked up to the idea of black coffee yet though…but never say never right? :slight_smile:

#201

After a 24 hour fast, I ate a nice enough dinner. I wasn’t satiated when I finished but it arrived soon afterwards. Even Tofu got a tiny bit of tuna, the little brat. She is already a very adult cat but maybe lack of motherhood, maybe her own character effectively kept her from growing up. She still behaves like a kitten. Caroline is super mature compared to her but she has her moments, obviously, cats tend to have them.
I am pleased with my day. And I so, so can’t love lean meat. Maybe I should do something different with pork chop… But it gave me variety, nutrients and satiety so I don’t really complain. Still, rabbit is better and that is lean too. Maybe the not proper source has some role? I enjoyed the pork chop from some farm better. And everything in the pig farm shop has great taste and smoking doesn’t matter, it never gives meat flavor, I bought tasteless (just smoky and salty) pork before so I know.
I even avoided undereating. Variety (3 kinds of meat, 2 kinds of cheese, eggs in various forms), being optimally well-fasted for a big meal and drinking calories do that to me.

It was a way better day #1 than the average one. Maybe my determination? Maybe the pork (it satiates me very nicely even in the presence of more carbs and it was nice to have some proper meat again) and my not very carby yesterday? Maybe both? Probably.

I can’t wait what will happen in the next days, I have exactly zero intention to stop anytime soon ~

Photos will arrive eventually. I skipped all the photo craziness myself and I never ever would do a selfie but I restarted making some photo now and then when I saw the picture thread on this forum :slight_smile: Alvaro was a hobby photographer and spent a lot on his equipment, it’s a waste not to use it! And I have eye for beauty. I never will be super good but as a seasonal tiny hobby photographer, I am pleased. Really great food photography is hard and not my goal to learn it, I just wanna show my prettiest or most interesting or new fav dishes without feeling awful that I did something worthlessly ugly… So I have standards but my food pics aren’t actually art. Just some decent shots of what I made. I have a different attitude with my natural photos and learned that a good camera and a nice macro lens help tiny ones like me. The camera is old and not perfect, it’s good my hands are stable…

@KellynP: I can’t say any good brand as I am so not a gourmet if it’s about coffee :smiley: I buy one of the cheapest instant coffees, I search until I find a not bitter one. I am a bit weird, maybe, I just like something in the general coffee flavor but can’t stand bitterness (except when seriously sugar posioned but that’s in the past). I don’t really care as long as it’s not some super cheap super crappy abomination. I want to stop drinking coffee but it’s the only addiction where carnivore doesn’t help. I still like having it even when I don’t really enjoy it (but if I add cream or eggs or something, I enjoy almost all coffee except the abominations, they are hopeless). I drink super weak coffee that normal people especially in this country where strong coffee is the desired wouldn’t touch. You are clearly more choosy if it’s about coffee!