Should I eat small portions frequently or large portions more infrequently?

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(Aimee Moisa) #1

Or is eating both ways OK?

I’m trying to listen to what my body is telling me but I’m confused by what it’s saying.

I’m six weeks in and I’m finding myself doing these two things:
a) not getting hungry for longer than usual (maybe 6 to 7 to 8 hours instead of my pre-keto usual of 3 to 4 hours) and then eating a “normal/big” sized keto-type meal
b) getting hungry after a couple hours then being satisfied with a small handful of nuts and/or an ounce or two of turkey and cheese

Should I just keep eating when my body tells me and the amount my body tells me or at 6 weeks and most-likely fat adapted.

I guess this is kind of an IF question because I keep hearing “snacking is bad on IF”. I don’t intentionally do IF but if I’m not hungry I’m not going to eat.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

What it comes down to is your insulin level. Given that it rises whenever we eat, the theory is that eating fewer times a day or eating only in a time window increases the number of hours during the day when our insulin is low, hence enhances our ability burn stored fat. So I vote for fewer, bigger meals. If you are regularly finding it difficult to make it between meals, eat more fat at your meals. If it happens only occasionally, then I wouldn’t worry about the snacks you describe.

Just to add another layer of complication, sometimes I think I’m hungry, when actually I am either craving carbs or yearning for the sensation of food in my mouth. Under those circumstances, I often find it helpful to eat a pinch or two of salt and drink a glass of water. Apparently I have a hard time distinguishing among hunger, cravings, thirst, and low electrolytes, lol!

(Aimee Moisa) #3

This is my normal state too. I’ve been very conscious of trying to distinguish between hunger and all the other things. Amazingly, think I’ve been able to cross cravings off the list. Still keeping an eye out for them, though, just in case they sneak back in and catch me unawares! Those pesky little monsters!

(Aimee Moisa) #4

Rebuttal: So what about eating smaller amounts raising our glucose and insulin smaller amounts and keeping ourselves in a slow burn all day instead of nothing-SPIKE-nothing? Or is insulin an all or nothing fat locking mechanism?

(E.O.) #5

Dr. Berg does several videos on this topic within his YouTube channel. The briefest summary is that he says if you have belly fat, he says that a sign of insulin resistance at some level. He says if you heal your body, it will correct itself. He says the way to heal your body (among other things he also recommends) is to increase your fat intake at each meal until you do not need to snack between meals. He recommends doing this at what ever pace you need to go at to make it happen…a few days, a few months, a few years–what ever works best for you and your body. He also shows and goes through a rudimentary cell diagram, parts of a cell, how energy gets in and out of the cell, the role of insulin, and that stored body fat cannot be burned while insulin is present—thus the core of his idea not to snack between meals, as if you want to burn fat, you want moments when you do not have insulin coursing around in your blood stream. He also has videos about the endocrine side of the body and intermittent fasting. He has a lot more info–but this is the general idea–so you can decide if you want to spend more time on that info. People here clearly have results who are not doing this–others who do have insulin-related issues are likely to benefit from IF, EF, or no snacking–but the key isn’t to be starving between meals–just to add just enough fat to go the distance without needing carbs to fuel the body. No doubt everyone is different, but I could tell when I was fat adapted by how my body reacted to hunger. I would get hungry. If it was a bad time for me to eat and I didn’t do anything intimidate about being hungry, pretty soon, I would no longer be hungry; I would feel an increase in energy; my brain seemed to think more clearly–from my own perception and from other’s perceptions of me. Then I would drop pounds and/or inches in the days following… I also note, much as the science seems to say from various reports, there is an idea window for me for IF and eating which increases lean muscle mass for me. I experimented around a bit before finding it. I’ve heard from other people’s results, every one is different on the timing. I fluctuate between 3, 2, 1, or fasting meals per day. Switching it up, helps me.

(Aimee Moisa) #6

This sounds just like what I’ve been experiencing the last few days. Either I don’t get hungry for a long time but if I get hungry and it’s a bad time to eat I can wait it out and eventually I stop being hungry. This morning I did that and felt better than I did before. I was happy and energized. Then I got hungry again, kind of like in waves, but by the time my second wave of hunger hit I was STILL too busy to eat so I just snacked on nuts and deli meat. Now I’m hungrier than I was before. Oh. That’s the insulin!!! Crap. Stupid insulin.

So if I’m hungry and I do eat I should eat a big meal that will satisfy me and I won’t get hungry again, not a small meal that will make me hungry again 'cause the rise in insulin was too much for the little bitty meal.

Thank you for all the great info, I will check out Dr. Berg’s channel. The description of the cell/insulin/and body fat storage sounds like a great video for me. I’ll see if I can find it.

(Ron) #7

^^^^this this this^^^^^

you have to reduce insulin from being produced to lose weight.

(Aimee Moisa) #8

I think I see that now. Thank you both for explaining it in such a way that I understand. It isnt about lowering insulin or glucose, it is about having periods of time where you have none floating around in your system so that your fat can be released from storage. Got it! :slight_smile:

(Bunny) #9

Per Dr. Berg:

Frequently snacking spikes insulin so if your going to eat a certain something e.g. a keto fat bomb for a treat, eat it all at the same time or right after you eat!

The concern about this, is that insulin (pancreas) comes in and starts blocking IGF-1 (GH; pituitary & liver) from burning the body fat when you snack in-between meals?

Fat blocking hormones:
Insulin (snacking), cortisol (physical, emotional stress) and estrogen (not as bad as the former two; but creates fat cells)

#10

YES, both ways are fine in their own contexts, but context is the key

If your FASTING than your FASTING, no snacks as the defeats the entire purpose. You hunger is being more spaced out which shows your adapting well and using more stored body fat as fuel efficiently.

Here’s where it gets tricky, on one side eating when you’re not hungry makes no sense, on the other the argument of keeping a steady caloric intake to maintain / support or even GROW your metabolism is also valid. To confound that, when your not eating and burning fat, you ARE still burning calories soooooooooo. In the end it’s about seeing what works best for you. What I recommend to people is when weight loss is goal #1 for you eat regular meals to satiety unless your intentionally fasting. I’m also a fan of metabolic testing, I don’t think many people do it but think about the advantage of actually having a REAL idea of how hot our furnace is running! Whether you’re watching calories or not, knowing that it’s running great all day and more or less lining up with what most calculators would tell you OR that it’s out of fuel and barely doing anything is very useful in your planning and method of attack.

(Aimee Moisa) #11

How do you accomplish this metabolic testing you speak of?

(LeeAnn Brooks) #12

You should try to lower your overall feeding times, so fewer, larger meals are better.

Each time you eat, it creates an insulin spike. And it take approximately 3 hours to digest a meal.
If your eat smaller, more frequent meals, you are perpetually in a state of feeding/digestion, which keeps insulin levels high.

Ideally you want to eliminate all snacks. If you find you are hungry, make it a meal. Eventually your hunger will decline and you will find you can naturally go longer and longer without eating. You’ll want to start to shorten your feeding window and lengthen the fasting periods with intermittent fasting, such as 16:8 or 20:4.

Then perhaps you could go to OMAD. I can’t do OMAD long term because it’s too hard for me to get in enough calories in one meal, but I do find it very helpful in doing once or twice a week as a bridge to extended fasting.

The longer you go without eating, the less insulin reaction you have, the more your body uses it’s own fat for fuel. But when you do eat, eat like you mean it.

#13

IF you wanna attempt to pull it off for free, if you can get a doctor to order it most times insurance will pick it up. But if you google metabolic testing or metabolism test for your zip code there’s usually a ton of centers that do it. Many gyms also do them, sometimes for everybody paying, sometimes it’s members only. In any case there’s typically not expensive. I’ve found that the average at least around me is around $75 with them as low as $50.

NOTE: If you try to go the Doctor route, and if they ask, do NOT tell them how you eat! Just tell them your eating like 1200-1500 calories, low fat, lots of fruit and not loosing… you know the lie. Unless of course you have a cool doc but most don’t and the way we eat would be blamed.

(Aimee Moisa) #14

If I need to lose almost 200 pounds, do I need to try to get in a whole days worth of calories in that one meal? If I eat until I am no longer hungry, and dont get hungry until 24 hours later or should I overeat to get a minimum number of calories in? And how many calories is that, btw?

(charlie3) #15

Instead of trying to tell you what you should do may be it’s better for the person offering guidance to simply say what they do so, here is what I do for about the last 3 months.

I used to eat 3 meals and a couple of snacks every day, 35 times eating per week. Monday-Friday I eat nothing until noon then eat a second time in the evening. Saturday I eat nothing. Sunday it’s bacon and eggs for breakfast as early as I choose then an early evening dinner. The new practice has me eating 12 times per week (no snacks). Usually I feel hunger for an hour or two week day mornings. Oddly, most Saturdays I often, feel less annoyance from hunger than on week days. I have no science to back mu up but suspect that eating less often is healthy.

(Troy) #16

For me, ALWAYS OMAD or 2MAD…

Today however , for the 1st time in 6 months
Just to change things up
Drum roll please…

I ate 3 small meals :grin::flushed:
12pm, 3pm, 6pm

Not sure. Fat adapted already
I’m just still messing w my protein intake
Fun!

No complaints at all
I love this WOE!

(LeeAnn Brooks) #17

Some experts say that OMAD for long periods of time damage the metabolism because most people can’t get enough calories into a single meal and therefore are working on starvation level calories on a daily basis.

If one limits how often they do OMAD or is able to eat enough in one meal, it shouldn’t be a problem.

(Alec) #18

Ooh I so like eating like I mean it!! Numnumnum…

(Bill Emmons) #19

I have been eating a 6/18 pattern for two months with one day of no eating a week. That gives me a 42 hour fast every week. I’m going to try a two day fast this week. The only problem I have is that my clothes don’t fit anymore. I’ve lost 50 lbs so far and I love it. I’m getting close to goal weight but will never go back to the SAD diet. One thing to remember is that when wanting to loose weight is that you should not worry about getting enough calories.on Keto, most us us had months if not a years worth of calories sitting around our bellies. Concentrate more on getting protein and vitamins, the calories tend to take care of themselves.

(Central Florida Bob ) #20

(I don’t know if you’re done with this idea, but thought I’d throw in something I don’t see others having said)

This is the idea behind The Zone Diet, Dr. Barry Sears approach that was really popular in the late 90s - I remember them mentioning it in the Men in Black movies - but isn’t really popular now. The name came from keeping your blood sugar in a narrow zone all the time. Not too high and not too low. I did it starting in '97 and after the initial good results, gained back while constantly trying to tweak the diet. I think that the idea worked OK in the short term, but in the long term our bodies adapt.

The key observation about fasting seems to be that the wider swings between highs and lows seem to be better for us than having a constant level. This is why Dr. Fung and Megan Ramos always say to mix it up - feast on your eating days, don’t eat at all on your fasting days and maybe don’t stick to a strict schedule (which I’m doing for now). Don’t try to scrimp on your eating days and restrict food too much. The expectation is that your body will increase your metabolism for the food you ate and burn more fat while you’re fasting.

My wife likes to say “how can intermittent fasting be intermittent if you’re doing the same thing every day?”

I think that’s another way of saying what Dr. Fung and Megan say: mix it up.