Second chance


I decided to take a step back. I was all happy and energetic. Now I’m very depressed to the point of googling suicide options (not acting, no worries). No idea what these mood swings are. I ate only meat yesterday (practical reason, no time to shop for veggies).

Maybe going all-in from take-aways and sugary sweets to zero carbs was a bit harsh to my body. :slight_smile:

I think I’ll switch to the gradual approach. I’ll do what I wanted earlier. First adjust to a wholefood diet with no sugar, grain, dairy, additives for a month. Just sugar and gluten withdrawal will be enough for now.

(Robin) #62

Taking a step backward, is not really going backward in this case. It’s you paying attention, knowing your own body and mind and acting accordingly.
You got this!

(B Creighton) #63

There is a connection between keto and thrombosis - keto should lower the risk of thrombosis. During keto my blood pressure has gone down, and I believe with anti-oxLDL protocols I put in place, my risk of clotting and CVD has also gone down. Thrombosis occurs when a “blood clot” forms in an artery or vein. There are also two supplements which I believe should help with this. Nattokinase is a natural enzyme that seems to have strong anti-clotting effects. I have begun taking ubiquinol as of Nov of last year I think. Ubiquinol is a primary antioxidant in LDL particles, and has probably helped me lower my oxLDL. The body makes its ubiquinol from CoQ10, but statins interfere with this production. I am not taking a statin, and never will, but am just trying to be informative. I believe oxLDL are “stickier,” and are a contributor to CVD. Anyway two suggestions to research. I have both these supplements, but only regularly take ubiquinol.

(Bob M) #64

Best way of getting that is by eating natto (a fermented soybean product). You can buy online or make. I’ve been making it.

(B Creighton) #65

I have a natto maker, but have been using it only to make my raw goat milk yogurt. How do you eat natto? I’ve heard it’s not “wonderful” tasting.

(Bob M) #66

I don’t mind it, but I don’t stir it. I just toss some Tamari soy sauce (brewed, no wheat) on it and eat it that way. It’s like eating beans to me.

Mmm…raw goat milk yogurt must be great. I buy goat milk yogurt, but it’s not raw.

The version I make isn’t quite as sticky as what they show here:

Most times, you stir natto until it forms a sticky paste. Green onions and soy sauce is one recipe. I don’t do this; instead, I just take the beans and eat them whole after I drown them in soy sauce.

If you’re near a Japanese store, you might be able to try it there. And I used to order mine online, and they shipped it frozen to me.

(B Creighton) #67

The raw goat milk is quite good, but to be honest I don’t notice much taste difference in my raw goat milk yogurt vs goat yogurt I buy. I am making it to lower my oxLDL levels as much as possible, and I believe it is heart healthier to eat the raw for several reasons. However, it can be somewhat finicky to make. I have found adding a pinch of xanthum gum and about 2 Tblsp of tapioca starch seems to ensure the cultures make a good yogurt batch. However, for instance, my first attempt last night failed. So although this is not a good idea, this morning I added some more yogurt culture.

Sounds like the Japanese equivalent of poi…LOL. I am willing to try just about anything that makes it somewhat palatable… Does it seem to cause you any gas or does the fermenting take care of the raffinose? I have a friend from Japan, but I don’t think he eats any natto. Are you doing it for cardiovascular benefits?

(Bob M) #68

For the natto, yes. I have (ridiculously) high Lp(a), and if this has a detriment, it might be coagulation (though some are convinced it causes atherosclerosis, but my CAC score was zero). So, natto offers both an anti-coagulant and vitamin K2, which helps put calcium in bones (instead of in arteries). Or at least that’s the theory for K2.

The natto does not seem to cause any ill effect, though I’m only eating a small amount per day. I’m also eating it last as part of my first meal of the day. Fermenting is always good, and there are plenty of things that cause me issues not fermented that cause none when fermented.

This is the recipe I use for natto:

I make it in my oven, which has a mode to hold at 100F. I use more natto spores, and I put into more containers. I also cook longer in the instant pot (15 minutes instead of 10), which may be the size of my beans (a bit larger), and also I like less bite to my beans. I also take out after 12 hours or so, put them into a bowl that’s been sterilized, mix, put back into the containers. I was getting inconsistent results (some containers had white beans, some did not) until that step. You might have different results with a yogurt maker.

(Eve) #69

I think the more gradual approach is very sensible, less of a drastic change for your body. And a clean wholefood diet is very healthy in its own right. And then if your mood stabilises, when you start to cut down the carbs, you will be able to assess that effect in particular. And find out whether keto or carni is for you.


I slacked on the diet. Now I’m going back on.

Any advice on how to actually stick to a diet? I’m having a hard time with self-discipline. I’m an emotional eater. So I eat keto for a few days, something depressing or anxious happens, and I binge on cookies. I’m also a social eater. It’s a part of connecting to others.


Me too but I never find much comfort in food… I eat due to many other reasons (wait, that too in my totally worst, I just don’t get any good from it).

For me, it’s tricky. (By the way, I go off all the time but it doesn’t mean I don’t have thoughts and can’t give some advice :smiley: I am so much better now anyway and when I go off, it’s usually keto for me now. And if not, it’s my choice, quite often. My default it carnivore-ish. Carnivore with a teeny tiny extra.) I am a hedonist (my hedonist inner self is the leader, it makes the decisions) and I kind of have a principle of not using much self-control when it’s about food… I don’t resist temptation and doesn’t really want to. But I do want to eat very close to carnivore most of the time as my body told me it’s its sweet spot. My body would be happy with carnivore. I am vaguely on board but well, it’s a tad restrictive for me especially for my rebellious inner self. Okay, so I just write how I do it, maybe something helps.

  1. Health consciousness is a good ally. IDK how vital it is, I have it pretty strong and can’t imagine being without. Joy from food is super important but health is even more. Anyway, I want to maximize enjoyment and I don’t look at it very temporarily. It matters how I feel after I eat the food and I mean long term… If it damages me, it’s not hedonistic if we look at the whole thing and it’s a serious insult to me, not being hedonistic. I want to be a very very good hedonist.
  2. Stubbornness and limitless optimism helps too I suppose. I just don’t give up. I slip, I come back. I struggle and mess it up, oh well, tomorrow is another day (I have a problem to change things before the next day, I may try to mitigate my problems but being well-fasted is the state when I get back my normal, saner mind. if I lost it due to carbs or something).
  3. I need to LOVE my chosen diet. It must be the best imaginable for me. I suppose you can get away with not having it this perfectly if you really focus on your health and well-being, goals and whatever you want from keto. But you still should enjoy your food. (Not if you are a “food is fuel” person, being disciplined and just doing what you must but as you have difficulties, you probably aren’t like that.)
    It may be hard in the beginning (or even much later) when you don’t have enough great recipes and maybe you get bored of your food (pretty hard on keto I suppose, easier on carnivore, at least I managed to get bored of meat quite often in the first years. I came from vegetarian keto, IDK if that helped or not). But there is novelty and I love making new recipes so it wasn’t bad for me (when I didn’t get unwell from too low carbs, I needed my low-carb times before keto).
  4. Just loving my food isn’t enough. I NEED various textures and variety so I had to build my recipes for keto - and then for carnivore. I lost my crunchy wafers and had to replace them with something. I have cheese whisps, scratchings and the occasional chicken skin (perfect crunch is needed!) now.
  5. PRACTICE :smiley: I need several years of practice and self-training to stick to a diet most of the time (always? that won’t happen and I don’t need or want that. but it should be rare, still not wild and for a very good reason. like strawberry season in my garden. that is still keto as long as I don’t start to think in stupid ways like it’s already off carni, why not to eat some more carbs…? But with practice and experience, you probably will realize it’s not the right thing to do).
    I mentioned training. It’s very very important for me. If I stay in the middle of my comfort zone, I won’t improve nearly as much. And IDK about you but if I go stricter than needed, that does good. I will feel better when I am not so strict but still sticking to my diet. And I get used to going stricter a bit occasionally. So my ideal easily shifts and I am safer. Does it make sense?
    Thanks to training, I lost sweetener in my drinks (there is one rare exception). I DISLIKE sweetened coffees now, it changed so much. But I started… IDK, 7-8 years ago? After a few years I merely drank unsweetened coffee but didn’t dislike it sweetened. Carnivore sped up my changes though, it’s a cheat code when it comes to my self-training :wink: I can’t force myself to do uncomfortable things so I just make tiny changes when I do my training. Slowly, slowly going towards my goal. And after a while, I get so used to the new thing that I don’t want the old one even if I am wild, not caring about much, miserable… As I wrote, I don’t get comfort from food (more like drinks. so it’s good I drink my coffee with cream and sweeteners in it make me ew) but I do enjoy the taste and that’s nice, my inner rebel may come out too… But even it can’t make me eat something I don’t like anymore. So it’s good if I lose interest in the food my body doesn’t want. I don’t have tips for that, they just happen or not but training and practice shifted my preferences enough so I have half success…? The rare still very tempting carby items are where I need to build some mental resilience, think about why I should avoid them, maybe making replacements, alternatives… If I persuade myself really well, I won’t just forget about it when I get tempted. I probably still will eat the stuff as I don’t resist temptation but there is some short time where I can lose the temptation due to thinking about the negatives. I have a similar thing since ages with heavily processed treats. I quit them when I went low-carb but well, there are exceptions when I wasn’t so strict. I did shopping, saw something I used to like… I typically just read the ingredients list and completely lost interest right away. But if I am at home, hungry and it’s homemade food, it’s trickier (hunger can turn out thinking). So I need to practice thinking about it much enough so I will remember why I don’t want to choose that path.

But mostly you should LOVE your keto food. I don’t talk about choosing something non-food if you aren’t hungry just need comfort but if it’s food, be it some nice keto food, at least. Maybe some fun treat that you normally don’t even eat because… IDK, too fatty, too triggering so you may overeat a bit but it’s fine occasionally? Still better than overeating with carbs.
The social part… Sometimes you can bring your own food. I attended festivals with my choir and baked some nice cheesy sesame muffins, it was even popular but I was quite content to eat half of it myself… (I still ate the cakes too, don’t do that. You are not old me, you are better. Almost no one was worse than I on festivals 10 years ago. I did low-carb on most days but people bake extremely well around here. My sweet perception was changed but not enough, it’s different now and anyway, I got bored of cakes due to eating them all the time on keto. Useful! Only losing interest in vegs was more useful, it was an odd thing when I was interested in carnivore. And I got this gifted to me. I could never just train myself out of my beloved vegs.)
Other times you need to choose the best. And maybe you don’t need to eat much if there aren’t okay things? I don’t get this urge to eat just to socialize, socializing is talking with people to me, what does it matter if I eat or not? I just had temptation problems when I still loved the offerings… You can think about it, the importance of your health and well-being and goals…
It’s often said on this forum and I agree, it makes a good point: What if you had a sensitivity? Maybe you could get seriously sick from some food? You would refuse it, right, even if your grandma baked the cake. You would explain you are lactose intolerant, gluten sensitive, you may day from peanuts etc. You could admire the cake but eating it and getting super unwell? Nope, of course. And a good grandma would learn and give you something else next time. Maybe not, it has little effect on your health that you protect.
Yeah it’s different when you know you will feel okay afterwards (it may be true or not if you eat something carby, we are all different). I experience that since many years… That’s why I can get tempted in the first place. A food that surely makes me sick can’t tempt me, I am too hedonistic and health-conscious for that.
I only go to visit a relative now. She has diabetes but bakes with sugar (very, very rarely now) and I bring a small keto-ish cake sometimes. It has a little fruit but it’s pretty rich so 1-2 slices have just a few carbs. It’s still cake made by one of us, enjoyed by all :wink:

Oh, another thing. I have these experiments. They are fun to me. I try out stricter things like leaner days, no dairy carnivore days, whatever is good for training. Just for 1-2 days. For some reason, my own brain enjoys the challenge, it’s not scary as it’s only for a short time and I don’t try something I would hate… And I get experience, information, training in the process. Quite useful.

Good luck!


I didn’t realize it in the beginning but I was an emotional eater too. What protected me well and retrained me was the fact that I overhauled my entire kitchen and cold storages the week I started Keto. Had I not done this I can see how many times I would have fallen off and got back on again, over and over. Instead, I threw out absolutely everything that was bad for the diet and all prepackaged, processed foods, and I did a large shopping session to replace things with Keto approved whole foods and ingredients. When I had bingy moments I couldn’t binge on things like cookies or chips because there were none there. I could only binge on meats and cheeses, yogurt and berries, olives or fermented pickles, coconut or almond butters, and baked almond flour goodies, etc. What happened is over the course of the first six months my body and mind became reconditioned to pair Keto food with my emotional swings.

The other thing I did that helped was relearn the proper way to cook from scratch. Over the past 50 years our society has saturated our kitchens and cookbooks with easy, quick and convenience, all requiring the purchase of Campbell’s soups and pre-packaged mixes, etc. That basically removed a lot of the need to understand how to cook in traditional ways, and the understanding of how raw ingredients work together. If you spend a lifetime using prepackaged muffin mixes, where in there do you ever have a chance to learn how to make it from scratch and what minute changes can change the entire outcome? We learned how to do all that using the pre-made ingredients. And even good roasts and meats, unless you grew up under the tutelage of a really good “from scratch” cook, you were at the mercy of cookbooks guiding you, not raw knowledge. But in doing that we signed over control for what was in our foods. Many of us have been lauded over the years for being really good cooks, but were we really?? We became skilled using pre-packaged ingredients that someone else made and overly refined grains, etc. Trying to do all of it from scratch on our own lowered us down several rungs, imho. I mastered cookies from scratch at age 10, but I never mastered anything else really. I tried to bake a cake or pie or breads from scratch, but since I didn’t fully understand raw ingredients they were always subpar so I returned to the safety of prepackaged or recipe-guided. I tried to make an incredible large roast but after it flopping I returned to trusting a cookbook that guided me to use unhealthy ingredients and frankly make it much more complex than it really is. It always turned out delicious but it wasn’t very healthy. I now make a killer roast beast. LOL And it’s no fuss and easy. But I had to relearn. That took a lot of time and some money. My health became my priority for my time and money so I committed. My first year on Keto had many disasters as I struggled to learn to make dishes that were as delicious as my old foods were, but boy did all those disasters pay off. Now another year later I can do almost anything in my kitchen all from scratch and time and time again the results are tastier and more enjoyable than my old food. If I had to go to a social gathering I have an arsenal of Keto dishes to turn to that everybody would like. Even deserts. My best, most loved one is a rehash of the beloved jello pretzel salad. It has some carbs, yes, but not an extreme amount and all come from Keto approved ingredients. It tastes heavenly, is better than the original, the crust remains crispy for days in the fridge, and every non-Keto person who eats it is amazed. Now it’s not something I would make in my home just for us on a weekly or monthly basis because it’s a treat that uses sugar substitutes (all lower than a 1-3 on the glycemic index though), and a pre-packaged Keto cereal (which I hate on its own but in this recipe is brilliant,) so while it’s delicious and one serving won’t knock me out of ketosis, it’s not good to binge on an entire dish or to eat it every week. But it certainly is great for a holiday meal or a social gathering where it will disappear before any other dish.

So in closing:

  1. Commit - choose: your health and vitality or being popular with others in a social setting. What good is being popular if you end up in a grave 10-20 years earlier? Doggedly choose to never again let anyone have power over what goes into your body, whether that’s food manufacturers or friends and family. You control what is in your food and what goes into your mouth. Be patient because the benefits of such a choice will glow like a beacon in years to come, but it won’t over night or in only a few months. The payoff is long-term.
  2. Overhaul your household so that you can’t fail at your weakest moments
  3. Learn the proper way to cook with raw ingredients so you can love what you eat, and don’t let failures and disasters derail your determination until you succeed. Then bask in the freedom that those new found skills offer.

(Robin) #73

Sounds trite and dismissive, but…
Willpower is an inside job. When you are truly committed, you can and will simply say “enough!”

(Bob M) #74

A great reply. Thanks for that.


I NEVER even want to be committed enough to use willpower when it comes to my precious food :smiley: I had to find another methods :slight_smile:

But aren’t muffin super simple things? Like pancakes (okay, those even more). I never figured out WHY anyone would use pancake powder. That’s basically just flour…? I saw more complex muffin “mixes” and they weren’t even mixed and looked amazing with all the chocolate chips and whatnots layered… Still, why? :smiley: The real work is there either way… Oh well.

Wow. I “instinctively” cooked just fine, that’s easy (I mean, I asked reciped from mom but I didn’t need to follow things closely, it was obvious what to use) but baking, that just couldn’t happen until I was, like, 25? And that was only bread, cakes come later, already on low-carb and I still can’t bake crunchy biscuits, my fav kind…
But in my country it’s very normal to cook properly… It’s cheapest and best from simple ingredients and anyone, that’s how things are done. Except puddings. I can’t imagine why people can’t make them normal - I understand powder (when not even cooking is needed) is easier and quicker, sometimes it has a flavor I can’t even get normally, but even cooking blogs use the powder! They make some fancy detailed cake and use powder pudding… Maybe they choose that one shortcut to lighten the load, I don’t judge but somehow I always found that odd… A pudding uses milk and yolks and some other things. I googled “pudding recipe” yesterday and apparently many people consider using pudding powder not a good idea when making it ourselves is just the same work (if it’s a powder where cooking is needed, the classic one) but the result is better.
I have plenty of easy pudding recipes now, even without cooking (using konjac flour)… My SO cooks his own (tapioca flour and NO eggs. inferior pudding), he complained last time and I tried to help him but it uses some serious arm muscle power, I am lazier than that and had my arm workout before :smiley:
I got carried away, yes? Sorry.

Bread is a special thing. Even if you can make cakes (they are simple, after all. I only made mix and bake ones… with some egg whipping, potentially), bread is… Different. It has a soul. Your state of mind may influence the result somehow as even if you use the exact same ingredients in the same amounts, it just won’t necessarily be the same the second time… You need learning. (It’s quicker if you don’t use a bread maker, that makes making bread significantly harder and less rewarding. stupid, useless machine. I started with that. my real success started when I stopped).
Or I was such a slow learner. But it’s really not a trivial thing.

IDK what you mean but I don’t think I understand them either. It’s not really needed though. I always went against common rules and it worked… Or not but then I tried something else :wink: Thankfully I never had to throw out food (except the burnt parts. but my current oven and induction cookers keep me from that almost completely. as I didn’t get less absent-minded…). I see that a lot from people who are inexperienced and try out online recipes - in the original, big amount. Whenever I try something, I do it in small and anyway, I suspect how much salt is enough for something…

IDK why you needed recipe for a roast, I just toss the meat into the oven with a tiny salt on top and bake it. I never roasted a whole bird or something, that may need something more elaborate (I saw enough complaints about white and dark meat cooking differently, I am not familiar with those things, my country doesn’t even say white meat and dark meat, it’s just the bird meat… I wonder if they complain about uneven cooking, I will ask my relative who cooks whole chicken, she isn’t a complainer, rather a pro, I love her cooking :wink: ). Meat is easy, most carnivores say so. Just don’t dry out some lean meat. But with the right sauce, it is still quite edible…

What on earth would a roast need? If it’s some lovely tasty meat (like my pork), only salt is needed. If it’s bird, I use some nice spice mix (just spice)… If I see a bad ingredient, I just skip that anyway… But that takes time too. I have been cooking since 35 years I think, almost every day since 23 years and it’s a hobby and I love to experiment. I make 13 changes in some cases if I happen to use a recipe instead of just making my own… I mean the first time, eventually anything can happen. Once I made a carnivore dish that started as a high-carb vegan one (my first attempt was a low-carb vegetarian one…? I don’t remember if I added eggs at the first time or just the second) but that was the only such extreme case. I normally just reduce the carbiness. Quite seriously.

If you ask me, desserts are the easiest on keto… (Except already keto dishes like roasts and many egg dishes.) Of course some kinds are tricky or impossible but there are many lovely keto desserts. Eggs and dairy are free to use and if it’s just normal keto, nuts too… It’s a very very lovely start if you ask me. I always found walnuts tastier than flour :stuck_out_tongue: And using it as “flour” isn’t a big jump as even “normal” eaters do it - though it’s usually part of the “flour”, not the whole thing… And sponge cakes are very eggy to begin with
But lots of desserts aren’t baked but very much egg and dairy based, it’s easy to make those keto.

By the way, many people say don’t eat desserts and sweet things. Some people can do that. Some are better if they do that. And there are we others, it’s not how we roll. Anyway, it’s useful when it’s a party and everyone (may) bring some treat.

Very natural thing to do if one lives alone… I always wonder when I see this, just how many people live alone or with only ketoers…? I even cook and bake for a high-carber. One can get used to it. Eventually. Parties are so much worse for me… But I don’t have those anymore.


Well no actually they aren’t. Especially when you have been trained with using over processed refined flours. Learning to make a muffin with all the right boxes ticked is harder using almond flour or coconut flour, etc. You need a solid understanding of the reactions each ingredient makes with others if you are going to substitute. You also need to know things like how coconut flour is totally different than almond flour and about 1/4 of the amount is all you would use, plus sometimes add an egg for its proper integration. You can’t substitute equal parts coconut flour for almond flour. And what if your muffins don’t rise? What if they are too dense? What if they don’t hold together and fall to crumbles when you pick it up? Understanding the purpose of each ingredient is what makes it possible to fine tune and and fix these problems, and learn how to get a good recipe. That’s why so many recipes online are so awful. Those people don’t have the proper understanding of each ingredient and think it’s ok to just substitute one ingredient for another and change nothing else. That’s why when a reader makes it it’s a flop and angers us for the cost of wasted ingredients.

No you are a rare bird. It is not instinctive nor obvious. Try making a noodle that’s low carb and you’ll see what I mean. Try to bake a pie or make a streudel that is Keto but similar in texture and taste to what we became used to. It’s difficult and requires knowledge of the balance between binders, acids, levelers, risers, etc., etc. Understanding raw ingredients and reactions between them is very necessary with specialty sauces (like a good béarnaise or hollandaise,) with most baking, and for just about anything more advanced than a sandwich.

As for a roast? It sounds easy to just toss it in the oven with some salt. And now I understand what that means. But I did that many years ago and it either came out like a brick and the meat was tough or it was unevenly cooked or chewy. It scared me and sent me back to rely on just recipes from other people and those recipes added unnecessary things that meat just doesn’t need because they were trying to be gourmet or something. So with Keto I had to learn and understand the differences in different cuts of meat and which required lower temps vs higher temps vs searing first vs slow moist heat vs dry heat, etc etc. Really you can’t cook everything the same unless you are only eating one cut of meat all the time. I have mastered a great way to slow cook most any large beef roast regardless the cut. And I have a single approach for most of my steaks. They are all heavenly and perfect now, and yes - simpler. But I had to relearn all about meat to get to that point.

For me I live with my husband and one adult son regularly, plus another son when he is home from college. The way I see it I paid for this house. It’s mine. My space, my abode, my rules. They don’t pay me a dime. I try to be very accommodating if they don’t like how I do something, like I’m constantly trying new recipes to find things they will like better than what I’m happy with, but it’s still Keto foods. I work hard to please them. I am happy to provide the big fridge in the basement for them to buy their own food with their own money should they want to eat differently, but I cannot afford to pay for both Keto and high carb fare. My money goes to Keto. At some point if they still aren’t happy then they can move out! They aren’t prisoners here. Lol

My health was so bad I was literally dying. I put 500% into caring for my children and advocating fiercely for them. (All three have neurological disabilities and are on the autism spectrum.) After sacrificing absolutely everything I had in time and money to give them the best chance to get a good, solid, educated start in life and be able to provide for themselves, I was left with no career, no friends, and the poorest possible physical health and depression you can imagine. One child is out of the house completely now, one is away at college, and one is struggling with severe disabilities and currently unable to live on his own. But I had to put myself first for once so I could be around to help him. I made it clear how hard it would be to be successful changing my diet if I had to be exposed to all the carby junk of our past. I tried to educate the two that still live at home on the wisdom of Keto. I never asked anything from them before, so it did not bother me to ask for their support in what I needed to do now for my health. Basically I asked them to love me as much as I have loved them. Two years later my husband has never been healthier or as fit as he is today. My severely disabled son has had his mental health issues improve tenfold. Both my sons lost weight and became very fit. Their skin cleared up perfectly. My college son caved to stresses of college life and the traps of quick easy foods that his friends eat and he gained all his weight back and his acne is bad again. His anxiety and stress is back also. He sees clearly that the diet made a huge difference and is struggling to get back into it. They all know if they don’t like my diet they can move out and get a job to pay to do it their own way. But if I’m paying for the food and the roof over their heads they will have to do it my way. It’s not unloving when I know my way will not make them sicker, but is actually healthier. Once they live on their own and pay for things themselves I won’t have any say in their choices. That’s what freedom is. But living on my dime is not free. LOL


It was rhetorical and meant the carby ones as that is where the mixes come into the picture. Mix, bake. Super easy. It doesn’t matter if one uses simple ingredients or not, it’s still just mixing and baking. Muffins are the simple cake things, just like mug cakes. Not the traditional, more complicated ones.
Baking keto is a bit trickier, that’s very true. Or much trickier, it depends on the pastry (IDK what word covers them all if any), one’s tastes… Nothing will be the same and I personally only can make sponge cake type things as that is where the flour has a less impact and anyway, I don’t care much about the others (except crunchy biscuits but I couldn’t make them even with flour :smiley: after low-carb when I had this instinct to make everything from eggs…)
There are recipes galore (Hungarian ones don’t even use almond flour so often), I just never liked them for some reason so made my own ones.

I never do that, sounds too much work, I can just not eating such things :smiley: I experimented, a lot and used what worked.
I always thought almond flour is kinda cheat, it’s a neutral thing with a subtle taste and there are recipes with only that as flour! I had to use flax, sesame, walnuts and whatever I could afford. They didn’t work so well but I still could make cakes where the flavor was masked well enough. I usually had to use as many kind as possible though so no one was too apparent.

It absorbs more water, that is very obvious. It makes everything tasting coconut and adds some weird texture (for me) so I never would use much so it’s not so important. It’s drastically different from almond flour so one needs to try out and decide if the very different thing is good for them.

I always add more eggs when possible, I don’t need coconut flour for that :smiley: Sorry, I have too much fun with reacting and I am probably childish but that’s fine…

Too little eggs, it’s obvious :smiley: Okay, I actually know oily seeds brings down the dough. I experienced it a lot. Not like I make normal muffins, I just make muffin shaped things. Mostly 100% eggs so the ingredients are simply enough… :upside_down_face: And the result will be fluffy. Whipped egg white is sensitive.
I don’t think I still got the hang of baking though I am pleased with what I can do and with carnivore(-ish) as my default woe I am somewhat limited but don’t need much baking either so it’s good. Keto baking was so complicated, I made 12 muffin shaped things and all were different… And I still couldn’t try out everything I wanted at the moment.

Dense sounds fine. Oh, muffins can crumble? How they do that? I can slightly (I mean, I still eat the result… if it’s not charcoal… some of my biscuits burn quickly) mess up baking but it never could crumble. Oh yes, my desired 50-100% egg content. Hard to crumble that way. But seriously, what does that? Too much coconut flour, too little liquid? But that’s visible when raw…

Are they? But why? People post things they didn’t try or they are just okay with anything crappy? I only saw problems where the creator accidentally wrote the wrong amount - and one where it was something salty and the family of the creater apparently liked things FIVE times as salty as normal people. I spot the problem but I am experienced. Rarely use other people’s recipes though and I know people somewhat so surely some messes up things… But often the commenters mess it up, not the original poster, I mostly saw that.

It’s often the case. I do that a lot. Of course you need to know how the ingredients work, mostly just the taste and maybe absorption or texture changing effect if it’s special… I freely can substitute a lot of things without problems, even ratios. Walnut or almond? Similar but of course, the taste will be a bit different. Flour substituted by nuts, well, that is more serious but partially often works. Flour is hard to substitute and it never will be even remotely the same if the original dough contains a lot of it. But if it’s an eggy cocoa cake? Pretty easy as the tasty cocoa hides a lot of less than stellar flavors. I even can use sesame and flax in bigger amounts there. If I want some more neutral flavor, that’s not easy and I only could pull it off super eggy. As I don’t use almond flour, the pretty neutral thing. Everything I use has its unique flavor. Almond and to a lesser extent, cashew are fine but they are expensive. (Walnut is expensive too but I don’t need to buy it.)

That’s eggs to me. I used to make dumplings, they were eggs with some of my usual flours, easy. Baking is harder.

I never baked a pie, we aren’t a pie country, I am not fully sure what that is so I couldn’t tell. But I don’t want a pie, I want a tasty meal… Maybe cookies, sometimes. But if I don’t want to overeat, it’s sponge cake and quiche. They can prove challenges too but I make them a lot (quiche is basically sponge cake to me, with some addition that changes the texture and flavor. it’s probably not a quiche anymore but as I never ate quiche, it’s not a thing here, I can’t compare. I didn’t even eat a carby cheesecake in my life but the keto and even vegan one I made was tasty) and now I know what I need to be careful with.

So you make things I don’t even try… That’s difficult I imagine. Way too much unnecessary work for me. I lived without those special things before cate, I way more easily live without them now that carnivore food is best to me. I still want something else now and then but I usually don’t bother with it even if I have a very good idea how to do it. I like cooking, even baking, still not very varied at baked goods but it takes so, so much time and effort just to make the simplest things, I don’t have the passion and need for making things more complicated. I do have plenty of recipes from my paleo-ish low-carb and keto years… Most used flours I don’t buy anymore but I could replace them pretty easily. I used to use oily seed flours and oily seeds, now I use gluten and oily seeds, much better. On carnivore, I use eggs and dairy, sometimes meat or skin and once I had ham powder or what… Carnivore makes things both easier and harder. I don’t have a zillion options for ingredients but there are ratios and if I add spices, I end up making 12 different muffin things again… Nowadays I don’t do that. Today my sponge cakes (not all was fully carnivore but very close. I used some veg powder) were only 4 different kinds. My muffin mold holds 12 muffins.

No idea about those, I never went into very deep with cooking, I just made good traditional recipes and then nice things that fit my actual diet. I never was into sauces, I didn’t eat them as a kid either. It is very useful now that I eat meat. I see zero need for gravy (that I never ate or don’t remember) and very little for sauces. I do make some when needed, like yolk+whatever sounds good (and tomato sauce for pizza or eggs in purgatory, IDK if they are identical for other people, they are in my kitchen). Hard to beat that one (the yolk+whatever), yolks are wonderful. Good to be a lazy hedonist with a simple (but not super simple) taste.

I eat pork and if I bake it for long enough, it never can be tough. It’s very tender :slight_smile: I don’t cook super lean meat or very big pieces (I have a mini oven anyway), that surely makes it easier. But it works for turkey (just the leg, what would we do with a whole turkey?) too.
If it’s a pan, frying things into near oblivion always worked for me… Except beef just screamed at me to fry it for a short time so I did already for the first time. I didn’t know that, I just felt it. Lucky. I don’t trust myself with beef unless it’s a quick fry or cooking for hours, both are easy and work well but I only like the latter in the case of Goulash and that requires some very off day. Mere beef soups cause me flashbacks from my childhood and while they weren’t as traumatic as eating chicken every Sunday, they weren’t good. Mom could cook pork (but honestly, who can’t? just toss it into a pan or oven pan and use much time) but not beef. I don’t suppose she wanted to begin wish… Both Mom and Grandma could roast chicken, I can’t. I mean, I always need to get off the skin and forget it in a pan for a loooooooooooooong time. Crunch is hard. But it works and I very rarely make chicken. I just love crunchy chicken skin.

That’s common but you just get another recipe then… Or change it but I can imagine the first seems much safer.

I never will do that, too much work :smiley: I used the same oven temperature for absolutely everything until a few years ago (except pumpkin and pizza, they needed the maximum) :wink: And never preheated the oven. It worked well enough but I have evolved a bit.
I still bake everything in 180-210C except now I start my sourdough bread at maximum. I have no idea if has any effect but I only started to make sourdough bread lately and baking isn’t insinctive for me so I mostly stuck to the recipe for now. Except where it’s not comfortable for me but I did it once and did my bread without and the result was the same so I skipped the step since. My bread still isn’t as great as my old type of bread was but I will learn. Bread takes time. And my SO loves it anyway. And I don’t like it anyway as it has no egg and it has too much flour…

All I eat needs about the same method. It doesn’t matter what kind of pork I make (it’s only a few, pork shoulder, pork chuck, green ham and pork loin), it’s 1.5-2 hours in the oven at 180-210C. The same with turkey and chicken. It was long ago I made chicken liver in the oven but that was the same if I remember…
In the pan, I just fry things until they get browned [EDIT: I forgot I always cook them first in their own liquid as I use the lid… so I get a nice cooked meat and then fry them properly). It may be wrong but I can’t care if I get 10/10 meals this way… Pork chuck has the perfect fat content so it’s very much impossible to get a lower score as long as I don’t make it into charcoal (even I can’t do that) or if the ingredient was bad for some reason. Really, it’s bliss, nothing can taste better, I am amazed and feel a lucky hedonist.
It must be my preferred meat, mine are all easy (I don’t fry the very lean ones though, that doesn’t work but lean meat is tricky, I inevitably miss the fat, I need sauces there).
I did watch a video to make proper chicken breast as I dislike that stuff but my SO likes it. I probably couldn’t even tell if it’s good as it’s never good… Okay, I can tell apart dry from moist but dry due to the low-fat and the odd texture chicken breast has… Rabbit is the same, I don’t touch the breast, not even if sauce is involved.
And I watch other short videos about how cooking works… It’s just a scientific interest as I don’t need the info to cook. I am fine with what I get without caring about things. I wonder why.

My SO needs high-carb (and couldn’t afford keto anyway, it’s different for him than for me) so he gets high-carb. But as I wrote, one can get used to it. I am quite selfish so I only cook what I like to cook but it works pretty well. And he got used to me not cooking vegs without problems. He even eats way less vegs now. And handle meat on many days of the month! That helps. If he doesn’t want meat, he can eat eggs. If he doesn’t want eggs (he is a weird one and has problems with eggs for every lunch…), he can eat meat. And sometimes there are even other options! It’s easy to cook for him. When I don’t need to bake the complicated and still not rewarding enough sourdough bread… Where I totally forgot to feed the sourdough… But a bread still happened and he will eat it.

Our circumstances are vastly different so of course we do things differently. I do it quite right, you seem to do it right too, I just can’t possibly know, not seeing so much into your life while I am living mine. I was tempted a lot and had some wild days due to it but I rarely felt bad, my body still handle carbs well enough for that while telling me if I go too far. So I can handle the carbs around me with the occasional slip ups. If I felt really bad if I ate carbs, I would feel way less tempted though… Whatever, it’s fine this way for me. I really needed to learn to face carbs and get a bit resistant.

You wrote so serious things in the end, I feel a childish silly thing for this whole comment… But I can’t abandon such a long one.

(KM) #78

Wow. :heart:

(Geoffrey) #79

Yeah, quit doing a diet. Start eating a lifestyle. As long as you treat your eating patterns as a diet you will almost always fail. The term diet implies that once you reach your goals then you can go back to the way things were but we all know that’s no possible. A lifestyle on the other hand is something that becomes so ingrained into your life that it’s forever. It becomes a part of you and it is you.
I don’t eat a carnivore diet. I am carnivore. I will not change what I am.


Well, we all have a diet. We just look at the word differently. To me, a diet is how an animal is eating, all have a diet. So I don’t have problems with the word, it has nothing to do with goals (well I have a diet to stay alive and healthy… but that’s it) or even laid down rules…?
But if I want to stick to a specific diet so it has rules, I need to know I am on that diet so I don’t eat off. So the focus is there somewhere (hopefully not all the time as that annoys me) but of course, it doesn’t mean it is temporal or too restrictive. If the wording bothers someone, they may call it woe or lifestyle. I call it any of those but diet is a good word for me just like the others. As it’s about what I eat.

A lifestyle is a bit more than just the diet but it’s very good to change the other parts for the better too.

And that’s another thing entirely. I am not a carnivore and never will be, probably. I may eat a carnivore diet for a while though. But if I was a carnivore, I would eat a carnivore diet, obviously. As human carnivores do that. Animal carnivores usually don’t eat that kind of fully carnivore diet, they aren’t as strict as humans who love their rules and possibly have a less healthy body too… It’s probably still called a carnivore diet, it just means different things for animals, something about percentages of animal food in the diet, I forgot the actual numbers.

Maybe it’s because I watch lots of animal documentaries and not having a dieting past…?

Of course, I don’t know what @Femke thinks about these, maybe we will know :slight_smile: But the point was how to stick to the keto diet with its rules (well, it has only one regarding carbs).