have you considered bulbs and tubers?
come up in spring and combine other bulbs in the planters to grow when they go down and have like spring and summer bulbs/tubers but by fall they all go down and lay dormant til next season. Just a thought LOL
Rudolph the Red Meat Ruminant
Fangs
#143
Thanks a ton KD for that update and results.
I knew PSMF wasnât a âthing carnivoresâ did but I also didnât know enough about it in truth cause I never checked it out but I knew you wanted to try itâŚhey you were the zc guinea pig for it and I appreciate your walk thru that journey to give us that heads up on what effects it had on you. Experience from a personal trying something is very key to us carnivores. Like I said, we donât âhave much optional playâ in our menu LOL so that fat and protein is our key factors and your PSMF walk showed you alot of personal truths.
cool thing is you are ok thru it, learned thru it, taught me about alot of experiences thru it now and I think in the end, we ZCers have to walk a slow and easy path.
AND sorry on your DD with the taste but time hopefully will get that all back for her!
over done filet mignon, yes I would be ALL over that too LOL even well done I have to say that tenderness is still kinda there and yes I would eat it all up also 
not a doubt about that!
Fangs
#144
Just some thoughts guys that I see in my personal journey.
heading into year 5 on ZC
I lost about 50 something in 1 and 2 yr. About 30 fast then slower but into end year 1 into 2 I dumped another 20 something, then I have this last darn 20 or so I WOULD love gone off the olâ body. I am 60 now.
But I GOT SO many real life daily changes that thru the years I canât ever give up. No more bloat. I eat as much on this plan as I want, any time of the day I want and I FEEL wonderful in the guts vs. my lc days. I am certainly improved on my anxiety and âbit of Karen crazyâ I had on carbs, I know that improved. My controlling OCD ways in my life have become way more of a âhippie let it goâ type attitude and darn if I donât love that from what I wasâŚso yea mental good gain on it all Then I lose lbs. which is always nice. Then I also know that I am not âdietingâ ever any more. I donât obsess. Scale crazy is gone. I donât ever eat/control/deny/ or punish my life with food and rewards and deprivation âall to diet off a lbâ like that crazy hamster wheel of misery I was on with âdietingâ and never succeeding long term.
I am NOW a real life WOE lifestyle change person on my plan I canât give up my life changes I did achieve at all for the extra weight I would love gone overnigh, it wonât trump all the changes I got. Then I got vitality and vibrancy of every day life back!-----from not wanting to move much to my actual body now saying âmove moveâ and be active thru a healed body and tackle movement and just thru my day I must move, which is what mother nature and the physical body require in our health times, we move and function and are active in our lives. Not in my old lc ways, I still got sluggy and more and when I went ZC out came more active life. Kayak, big mt hikes, more horse/farm and more and I flourished in wanting to move vs. omg, I HAVE to move and get all this done today? So my life interactive has flourished from in my lc ways and my failures in that lifestyle. So I find myself in a great place actually.
So that is just where my mind is at for me at this point. Just me and what I have gained vs. not ever wanting to lose ALL I did gain ZC forward for me definitely. Others experiences will vary of course 
Ketodaisy
(Daisy)
#145
See Iâve only ever had that 20 lbs to lose. Maybe thatâs why itâs been so hard? I donât know. I think there are a lot of factors at play in my lack of weight loss⌠poor sleep, chronic stress, and unresolved trauma being some of the biggest. But like you, I wouldnât give up the NSV of carnivore for the world. I have a laundry list of things that going sugar free, then keto, then carnivore solved. Itâs interesting to see the things that improved with each elimination from my diet. Deep inside my brain, I know if I went full Lion diet for a year, Iâd see a lot more improvements, but there are certain foods I just havenât been willing to give up (namely eggs). Maybe someday when I no longer have chickens, but I just canât justify not eating eggs when they are provided to me daily 
.
Fangs
#146
Yea KD with only a bit less weight to lose that will definitely be a factor and you being younger than me you are probably healthier than me coming into this with me being older, so there is always a big diff. in who we are, where we come from, our stress in lifestyles and our lives in general and SO much more. We do know our bodies react in great form to being ZC but the timeline for changes will always never be same for any of us with our personal journey.
I get ya, I feel you are right on that
But it is great you got other benefits and see and feel them. Shows this as a longer term stay lifestyle to eventually unfold other benefits. Who knows, in 6-9 mos you might drop all the lbs you want and you will be like, WTH? why now? but our bodies control us on what it truly wants to do soâŚI keep banking on it all HA
The longer term veterans all got their goals so who am I to question longer on plan? Just keep on going cause thru all the advice I asked in my path was just keep eating zc and let changes happen as they happen and darn, some days ya know ya wanna force so much, but in the end, faith in the plan and I am now one who goes by just that.
I âtried to do strict carnivoreâ wtih no dairy and no eggs and just beef and water and hell I could not do it. And I almost felt like a failure when I couldnât do âall in strict zcâ but in the end, hell the longer term veterans with 15 yrs plus doing this with all their benefits, heck darn near not one of them âdid the strictââŚthey just did their carnivore path that works best for them so I thought, WHO AM I do belittle me and not âdo meâ best I can on this plan? I ainât special in truth, I donât require some more deprivation or control or strict, I am doing so darn well just the way I am tackling my zc lifestyle. I love all I accomplished so I will never try all in strict again cause when I tried, I darn near backslided right out of zcâŚyea I had a fight on my hands. My brain canât âgo too strictâ or I feel too deprived ya know. I know my personal limits and with what great I got, yea I ainât testing that path for me ever again. I change as time on zc tells me to change and just eat what the body asks. I do best right there
I learned alot thru my years on plan. But very hard to describe to others, but when you got the time under your belt walking this journey you truly can âsee so muchâ about what it takes for yourself personally and that has to trump all other for ourselves.
Karen18
(Karen)
#147
I was just thinking zbout the bulbs I have snd it says to plant late Autumn. Thanks @Fangs x
Naghite
(Michael)
#148
Yesterdayâs meals were first bit of beef liver, two small sheep spleens, small heart steak with bacon and eggs.
I had salmon , sardines and cheese for second meal. Was a low calorie day as I intended to eat more but got busy playing video games 
Ketodaisy
(Daisy)
#149
I put a pack of drumsticks in the smoker Saturday and completely forgot about them. Burned them quite badly. But I donât waste food, so they are on my platter today. Dipped in chefshamy garlic butter and air fried back to warm. Then the omelette is the rest of the pizza toppings from Friday night. I found a beef stick in my husbandâs lunch box this morning, partially eaten. I asked him about it and he said it was disgusting, to throw it away. Not me! It got added to my omad this was a trash can worthy meal that I made into mostly deliciousness
Shinita
#150
[yesterday]
Got hungry before noon⌠Oh well. I made my own sausages from pork shoulders and a little bit of pork jowl (just the fat part. this piece has a nice amount of meat in it, yay, I enjoy that precious thing alone, wouldnât mix it into something) and spices, of course⌠Needs more spice but it was good. And ate a few eggs. I donât need much food that early but it probably wasnât very small as I ate all the fatty sausagesâŚ
I roasted some pork thigh (Alvaro ate some and left all the sausages for me) and a turkey wing. I simply canât make the skin crispy, only in a pan.
Then I started to read the article, I donât know why. Though I met a few articles in my life I agreed with⌠Itâs just my own more or less vague thoughts about my not too far future, nothing else.
Oh I know that 
It could never work for me unless I figure out things. I canât get satiated with little food, after all, no matter the protein content (I guess. I canât eat mostly protein so no idea what would happen). I always need LOTS of protein and LOTS of fat. I just try to figure out the minimum amount of fat (and protein. carbs too but thatâs no problem on carnivore) and eat only that much somehow. Not forcefully or through tracking, I canât do that. Normally, using the right timing and food choices. I put my hopes into leaner cuts like pork thigh and chuck. Chuck is totally leaner in my world now⌠Itâs fun eating pork shoulders with pork jowl but I too easily overeat fat that way while not getting as much meat as I would like sometimes. My âmeat needâ went up I think. I am not content with half a pound per day. Maybe due to the lack of dairy, maybe something else. 1 pound a day was unbearably high a year ago (I went way higher but very very rarely and then my meat intake plummeted for a few days), now itâs a cute amount and I may want more, not every day but regularly. Protein need, meat need, energy need, fat-loss goals⌠They should be in balance and I had certain problems this far. It wasnât so bad but not good enough.
Some people do should play with the macros right away. I had to eat âleanâ in the very beginning to avoid nausea. Well it wasnât bothering with macros just choosing the fattiness of my food, pretty normal but it caused the macro changes.
And I was already used to needing to minimize my fat intake. I try to do that since day one on low-carb to avoid (massive) overeating.
But yep, for a while I thought I can get away with fatty meat if I just stay away from added fat as much as I comfortably can. I still think so, actually but itâs better to try everything that points into the right direction (as long as itâs not too overwhelming) as I WILL mess up some points here and there, I will get hungrier days⌠I want to try a tad harder after ~9 years of stalling (and sometimes gaining but that wasnât significant except the stress gain and I needed quite bad eating for that and I am not prone to that nowadays).
Nope, I mean not necessarily⌠Itâs low calorie if the calorie intake is low. Eating less but still enough for our goals isnât low-calorie in my books. Eating lean meat and thatâs it is probably starving, yep, we shouldnât go too lean.
[today]
I think I delete the other stuff here. It was okay to think but itâs for myself. The only thing I wanted to say that there are simply NO general percentages. There canât be unless itâs some therapeutic keto. We have very different energy need, protein need, taste and so many other things. Going below 70% fat or over 90% is simply a necessity for some people due to the mentioned and other factors. Probably most of us have some not very wide individual range as options and going beyond is simply wrong. Mine is pretty normal, maybe 60-80% but itâs almost impossible for me to avoid overeating at 80. And 60% is hard due to my tastes (and I dislike wasting too much protein as well and burden my body with it. I am fine with high protein but there are a limit as I have a human body. not like I could eat too much protein from my own will, I automatically start to want fat if I go high. so I donât need to worry about that). Someone who eats quite little (because they need that or just canât eat more and itâs okay for them) may not afford 70% fat at all and need to stay lower (simple math if we know the need in grams, the actual woe has little to do with that). Grams are important, in some cases percentages too due to reasons (nausea, taste, therapeutic keto) but they often just happen to fall somewhere and people with the same protein need and very very different energy need probably wonât have the same limits and ideal numbers.
But if one is lucky, they wonât even have much idea about their percentages, they just eat whatever they feel like and things still will be good. Thatâs my goal but I am not there yet. Maybe some months later.
Thatâs about it for now. I canât want to play with things next year But now I try to get my mind off of it.
I change my attitude to December too often lately. I decided I just relax and not to track (except the meat and eggs, that will be the majority of my food anyway), I really should start to bake things already and experiment and I will taste this and that. Probably not too much though but I canât focus on everything now and OMAD is the most important point for me in December especially that my mostly egg and meat eating is automatic.
Today I eat pork and eggs and thatâs about it, probably. It will be NOFUSS today, itâs after 4pm and I am still satiated but I ate much yesterday (I stopped tracking at some point but it was a normal higher-cal but not crazy day), I was quite hungry and ate multiple times. Finally a really meaty day (itâs easy to do with leaner meat), hopefully it helps with today and it will have a nice, convenient OMAD dinner. Alvaro ate much meat for him as well but he has no other options right now. But he doesnât seem to mind and thatâs pretty convenient for me.
@Ketodaisy: I donât throw away food either, itâs good we have animals though. But if something is meat and still at least borderline edible, I probably eat it. I usually need some very serious situation to eat lean meat (especially chicken breast) but it happened before (there are ways to make even that good enough. in small amounts) and I am never forced to do it as Alvaro adores super lean meat and even the dry, stupid breast :D. Meanwhile I adore fatty meat but we have enough common ground. And the cats adore almost anything animal and the chickadees can help with tallow. Not much food waste happens in this household and itâs never meat or fat or skin.
Shinita
#151
âŚAnd thatâs about my salmon spread I guess. I started to taste the tiny starch in it. It was a nice occasional spread, the biggest part is salmon, quite low-carb, I donât worry about my body if I eat the ingredients as the amount is so tiny and my body handles it as it handles the way bigger negative things in a human life even if we do everything well⌠But the taste or rather the texture is off.
I think I will make my own spreads in the future. These are too big and too salty anyway and itâs better to put only good enough stuff inside. I very rarely need such a thing but sometimes it comes handy. My newest biscuit (egg and pork) ended up not enough salty, a bit dry and the taste wasnât the best either, too much boiled egg yolks I suppose⌠So the spread made it way better. Anyway, variety.
My meal was⌠Okay but not so great. I want pork chuck again, thatâs the right thing for me. Not too lean, not too fatty and if I am lucky, wonderfully marbled.
Oh my, I forgot to include my photo in the previous comment, I go and put it inâŚ
Ketodaisy
(Daisy)
#152
Yeah my trash can meal left me wrecked. I had to take a couple hours off work
Shinita
#153
Poor you! I feel okay, I meant the enjoyment only. My body tends to be very okay on this style.
And I donât think I met many food items that could make me feel actually bad.
Iâve just tracked, smallish OMAD meal (no wonder, I had a higher-cal day yesterday and I have lean pork) , I managed 67% fat only because I ate some really fatty items I wonder what happens if I donât do that⌠(Probably would miss fat like crazy but the leanish pork itself is easy to eat.)
My biceps is aching but it will get used to it, I donât want to make only one biceps exercise on my full body workout I make two and zero leg exercise, perfect.
Alvaro joined me at chest press as it is too boring for him to wait for the time when he has to get off the weight from me. He is a tiny bit stronger, it seems - but maybe not just stands suffering more. But probably a bit stronger and obviously would get better rapidly while I wouldnât if he would lift but nope, he only does this one exercise and only if I need help. But I always need it since I use my big bar (21.5 kg but not for long).
I am getting better again, the last 1-2 weeks were bad but it seems I will be able to raise my weights again ~. YAY!
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#154
Karen18
(Karen)
#155
Up fairly early today as 8 had a tel appt with the stroke team psychologist. An hour and twenty minutes later and she deemed me to be well balanced with positive outlook and coping strategies ⌠but should I find things going downhill when I return to work to call her! She was lovely. I have been so fortunate to get all the support and quick follow up appts by the stroke and cardiology teams.
Went out and about today and spent a pretty penny on bird food more planters decorative gravel for the pots and herbs to put in them. My car smelt divine on the way home. I shall put them outside my back door for the aroma as that is where I sit when the sun is shining.
Was about to make a late late brunch at 3.45 when mt friend Raymond needed help to get to the doctors surgery so food had to wait till I returned home later at 5.30. I stuck some spicy chicken wings in oven and finally had first meal of the day st 6pm ish. Folloed by some cheese.
The spicy was a bit too spicy and affected my tum a bit. Took a couple of rennies and it has settled now.
Line manager visiting tomorrow so another early rise.
Shinita
#156
Yay!
I am not very good with words in some situations but I wish you positive things, good physical and mental health! I never knew what to say in the last weeks but I wish well!
Azi
(Linda )
#157
Iâm l so late to the thread today because last night I started reading bears writings and couldnât put it downâŚhe was a no nonsense type of personality but I decided as I said in a earlier post if i want to learn I get it from the veteransâŚIâve learned so much from Fangs and others here but Iâm always looking to learn more so what better way to learn than from somone that lived the carnivore plan for nearly 50 years ⌠so when this showed up in my fb feed I went to the link and started readingâŚ
What I learned from him so far is reinforcing the veterans donât mess with it trying to control macros meal times and how often we eat is dietingâŚ
His plan was really simple and Iâm going to try to start following itâŚwhat is it?
His style of zero carb is If you are stalled or not losing is to cut carbs to only 5 grams. Yes I mean in our carnivore foodsâŚbecause not losing means we still eating too many carbs. That sets off our insulin
He also suggests as Blake Donaldson did⌠no salt as it can stop weight loss and he said the side affects from lowering it are because itâs we can get addictedâŚbut it affects our metabolism,skin and kidneys he says if our sweat is salty we are dumping it and we have too much In Our bodies
For losing weight and hunger he says we are not eating enough fat if we stall or donât get to our goals or too just too many carbs⌠hunger means our fat is too low as well.
he suggests eat fat in your meat first until your no longer wanting more then eat the leaner part of what ever meat your eating
His plan included coffee ,cream, spices ,eggs, cheeses, dairy{not too much cheese because it can constipate) and of course meat⌠but he said donât over cook the meatâŚthe rarer the better
He also stated we make the mistake of thinking that dietary fat makes us fat but itâs the carbs in the foods i.e/meat /sauces/ dairy or vegetation we eat âŚbecause fat we eat stays in our blood til we use it/burn it.
So today I started with thick cut picanha and ate the fat first and 1 egg I then started on the leaner part of the steak but could not finish my meal.
.
Azi
(Linda )
#158
You have done so well with your recovery itâs been amazing to watch you rebound so fastâŚim so happy for you that your have done so well.
Fangs
#159
@Karen18, so happy things are falling easily into place and your healing is doing so well! You got a great support system around you
@Azi
yup. the Bear shows truths in zc. As do so many of the long term veterans. Key about carnivore, donât fudge âtoo muchâ in ANY direction, then it is not zc at all. I also inhaled tons of info from Bear and more vets and simplest we keep zc the better we do point blank.
--------------doing fine
got me a nice steak for later and might pair up with chicken or shrimp. I am kinda shrimpâd out a bit but darn I love them but some chicken might be a good side. Dinner, not sure, got burgers so that is always handy and if I eat great on this first meal, burger is all I might be wanting.
keeping it simple. I am gearing up my brain for Jan. when âI change meâ to the better on zc. I feel great but I feel âstagnantâ and maybe need that tiny change in the right direction and get some new feelings and new vibrancy going down in my eating. Just some things I want to work on.
Karen18
(Karen)
#160
Thank you @Shinita ⌠i am not terribly good at finding the right words either xxđ
Karen18
(Karen)
#161
Can you send me the fb link for The Bear please it sounds very interesting. 8 have never heard of him x