Rudolph the Red Meat Ruminant

Azi · 2021-12-11 00:06:35 UTC

Today is another lamb eating day for me…will prob go back to beef tomorrow

Septimius · 2021-12-11 13:45:46 UTC

I’m quiet at the moment because I keep having ‘progress’ anxiety.

(Basically, I have lost fat and seen other benefits so, logically, I know it’s working and is beneficial - but another part of me feels that maybe I have not lost ‘enough’ fat for so long on plan. I’m just tired with not looking like my old self, I think.)

robintemplin · 2021-12-11 14:28:01 UTC

What’s going on? Are you close to goal, so naturally slowing down? Are you just feeling stalled or worried you are straying? Are you wanting progress when you might be at maintenance? Or just having a general rough patch, as we are apt to experience… especially during holidays.

Septimius · 2021-12-11 14:51:59 UTC

Yeah, all good questions - just mind games, I think.

I’m not at maintenance or goal, but I haven’t strayed at all. I’m not really bothered by Christmas related food - after being so solid for so long, I’m not particularly interested in any of it. So that’s great - I’ve definitely curbed my sugar addiction.

I think it’s just mental. I have lost but I feel as if fat loss / size loss has stalled these last few months. I can’t work out if my body is prioritising other things, or if it’s just going slower than I want / expect, or if I’m eating too much (or too little!), or the wrong combination of fat/protein.

I realise that if I don’t know the answer to these, then other people likely don’t either, so I’m not fishing for answers.

I guess it comes down to - I’m happy to keep going as I am if it turns out in 12 months, 24 months, 36 months etc it will all work out, but I’m a bit fearful that something isn’t quite right and I could get 36 months down the line and not look the way I want.

I can’t work out if I just can’t ‘see’ the progress I am making, so I should carry on as I am - or if there’s legitimately no progress and I need to change something.

robintemplin · 2021-12-11 15:15:54 UTC

Yeah… I know exactly where you’re coming from. I can usually figure out if something I am doing is causing issues. For instance, if I start having snacks (even keto friendly) after dinner. Fail. (Pounds plus heartburn.) If I don’t eat enough calories. Another hard fail. Sometimes I stop exercising for a while and I lose weight. Who the heck knows!!!

We just hang in there, do the best we can, hopefully feel good etc etc etc. We know the drill… and it’s easy to reassure others… but not always so easy to reassure ourselves. I’ve been living between 155 and 158 on the scales for months and months. Hang in there.

Shinita · 2021-12-11 16:19:34 UTC

As I thought, 600g beef for two is barely enough for the first course of our lunch…
It was very chewy for some reason and I don’t mean the normal “beef is chewier than pork” thing. The usual beef leg is loads better… IDK if it’s this piece or neck isn’t so great…? But the taste was fine. A bit tallow-y, maybe I ate beef too long ago… But normally the tallow taste is just right. I think it was a tad too fatty for the dish, I don’t like too fatty soups. But again, it wasn’t bad at all just worse than I expected after my past experiences. Ingredients, they aren’t always the same so this thing may happen.
Next time it will be beef leg stew, normal stew, with only as much carbs as inavoidable. Or maybe we fry the meat, I just rarely do that with beef, I am a bit uncertain what methods are good for it. A beef stew is always good and I eat beef so very rarely that it does little to my monthly carbs and I usually use stew when I am a bit bored of my simpler dishes. But maybe I will search for or make new very simple recipes. I never mixed beef with eggs, I think… Ground beef sounds good as it’s a chewy meat and it would make it smoother… Did I ever eat such a thing I wonder…
And I still have no idea about brisket and you guys keep mentioning it… I still know so little about meats.

Azi · 2021-12-11 17:07:04 UTC

I think alot of us go through feeling that and for me some days I still get extra hungry and snacking creeps In but I try to curb it when it does by eating a piece of butter… some times it kills it others not.

Funny thing for me is when I start thinking about am I eating too much or if I start tinkering too much in low fat I usually stumble across an article from a 10 yr veteran on don’t do it…Infact I just had that happen last night… Its so easy to let the diet mentality rare its ugly head and allow thoughts of restrictions to enter and then followed by 2nd guessing my progress.

If I really stop and think about it I still fit my size 4 jeans, and in a couple months I’ll be one year into carnivore and will have been at a stable size without having gone back to my old way of eating. Or gaining sizes.
So I have to acknowledge that even if I’m not where my mind thinks I need to be, If I start trying to manipulate how much I eat, or if I try to cut fats too much, or force one meal a day then I’m back on the diet band wagon I’ve tried so hard to break free from. Also when I do that I’m no longer allowing my body to decide what it needs. And If I don’t trust in that then I’m not healed …

Well that was my take from the article I read last night.

Septimius · 2021-12-11 17:41:06 UTC

Most of the time, I’m really good at recognising progress:

I have lost size (jeans size, t-shirt size)
I have lost fat
skin is really good
teeth seem in great shape
hormonal / monthly issues exponentially improved (pain, duration, no ovulation pain etc.)
hair, nails etc really strong and healthy
no cravings for sugar or carbs in general or artificial sweeteners
rapid muscle gain compared to efforts lifting on different plans in the past

I know that it’s all been going in the right direction, and I don’t intend to stop, irrespective of the fat loss.

The bit that keeps causing me to pause is my failure to drop a jeans size. I have got 3 sizes to drop before I will be at goal, so just wanting to drop one doesn’t feel like too much of an ask - and I haven’t really seen much progress in several months.

I can’t work out if I’m just losing size elsewhere (I have lost a lot off my abdomen and off my upper and lower back) and the jeans size change will come if I just keep sticking to the plan - or if I am doing something wrong.

But to throw a spanner in the works, I do take a couple of medications - and the side-effect of both of them can be increased appetite. I became overweight partially due to taking a medication that caused me to put on weight very rapidly (I no longer take that).

I guess I am worried that whilst I have really revelled in being satiated on this way of eating, is my satiation at the wrong level - i.e. is it being artificially inflated by the medication?

(I am not asking you for an answer; just spilling out my thoughts.)

Problem is, as we’ve discussed many times - how would someone even start to guess where they should pitch their calorie/macro intake. I’ve definitely seen an uptick in ‘wasting’ processes with metabolism - I was always freezing cold, even at 15C or so; now I can go out for a walk in single digit (celsius) weather wearing a t-shirt and no jumper/coat.

So like you say, I could decide to deliberately restrict - and then mess it all up, because I’m arbitrarily changing things, and maybe I am just hungry. I was essentially starving myself for years - maybe my body just needs time to heal.

Shinita · 2021-12-11 18:53:32 UTC

I need restrictions or else I eat a ton and that’s not good (there are other things, as well. normal keto and low-carb are about the same but carnivore brings some mental benefits regarding food). But I never “dieted” and couldn’t force myself if wanted… So it sounds just right to use as much sane restrictions as I comfortably can :D. It’s fun anyway, not all the time but even temporarily it can bring great changes

I am so curious what will happen later when I just will do carnivore(-ish. NEVER saw any problem with my tiny extras and no way I force them out of my life, it’s not like I could do it anyway) day after day… I don’t worry about eating a lot on carni day #2 as yep, I am not always so great at that point. But I probably always will have higher-cal days, it’s how I work and there is nothing wrong with that. I don’t truly seriously overeat on carnivore, I mean no zillion kcal more, no the feeling I overate, no ignoring satiety signals… I am just hungrier than normal and more food satisfy me and that is surely above my current energy need. That’s fine occasionally. I am not a robot and my body probably knows what it is doing.

I figured out my lower maintenance calories 10 years ago. I just assume it didn’t change much, not like it matters as I eat as much as I happen to eat in the end anyway… But it works better on carnivore, my eating urges work better and I think it will be great for me on longer-term carnivore. Unless I mess up food choices or timing. It’s not easy. I experiment and think and experience. At this point I have an educated good guess about how I should eat. I just can’t do it often but I am hopeful it will get better next year when I probably stick to my default woe way better. Things points to that, the time is ripe for it!
I can’t ruin my metabolism as no way I ever eat at a big deficit for more than 1-2 days. I am more like the overeating type but good food choices and good timing helps tremendously with that. But I am curious and often track and even if not, even with my horrible guessing skills it’s apparent if I barely eat, I definitely would stop that if that would happen. My energy need is little so it’s very obvious if I eat way below that, it may be way harder for someone with a bigger need (or a body more prone to lower CO if CI drops. mine never seemed to do it with a cute deficit).

Makes sense. That thing may need a lot of time to get heal from. I overate all my life (it got better on low-carb and I probably don’t even do that on carnivore, hard to tell without spending much time on it and my old, still not long term but more informative experiences aren’t relevant as I changed), I don’t know what my body needs but I try to give it that.

I wasn’t so happy with today, I enjoyed myself but nope, my body prefers carnivore. Big surprise there… It always found a new favorite whenever I could go lower-carb without feeling miserable right away. But after all these times I don’t feel a big urge to go into some other direction. My desires truly changed. Or I am optimistic again as today I was quite disciplined…? Maybe it’s not the right word but I felt no compulsions. I only had more carbs than normal because the beef dish had them (they didn’t do any particularly good to it but I won’t skip a rare beef dish) and because I did some experimental keto baking (non-keto too) and I had to taste it. But eggs and meat are just better (unless I live on them for too long, maybe. I never tested that). I ate a bit cheese and no, I just don’t want it anymore. I made whipped cream and didn’t want even that. I was into it SO MUCH in the not distant past. It’s amazing how much I changed. Food tastes almost the same as always but taste isn’t enough. If I don’t want it, it’s empty, doesn’t give me joy, just some almost sterile information.

I closed my day with some pork (still shoulders) Hmmm… Still not enough meat I guess (it feels little to me now, I don’t miss it, it just feels little and want more tomorrow) though it’s hard to tell how much my body wants/need… 0.8 pound for today and yesterday and the previous week was similar. I love my eggs a lot lately and my meat is very fatty… It doesn’t seem ideal but maybe it would be longer term…? We will see. I will make SO MANY experiments next year! I assume I will figure out things.

Karen18 · 2021-12-11 19:07:29 UTC

That surf n turf looks so tempting but 8 have eaten now lol … maybe tomorrow … oh no I can’t I have some duck to eat tomorrow lol!

Karen18 · 2021-12-11 19:39:00 UTC

Yesterday I got up and put another cat of paint on my little crate box planters. Then Sian text me 8f I wanted a midday walk. She came out of covid isolation but was working from home. Of course I said yes, very rarely say no as I like the catch up and haven’t had much conversation for the duration of her isolation lol. It was just a short half hour walk up to the horse fields and back. Then popped over to see Raymond via The Comoany shop to pick up some food for him. He had been out in the morning, silly man, and was in a right state when he got back. So much for taking the consultants and my advice to rest up! So I made him a brew, did all the washing up and put his .eal in the slow cooker. Then after we had finished our tea I left him to go back to bed and rest!
Brunch ended up at 4pm! I finished off the belly pork which was actually better old and had some cheese.

Well today was a little break through day … I got up did 40 flights of stair runs and the went to CrossFit and did a pairs workout with Sian. She was a bit hungover from the CrossFit Xmas party the night before so I certainly didn’t hold her back hahaha . It was a 30 min you go I go as many rounds as possible, 500m bike 12 db shoulder to overhead 6 DBall cleans. We did okay, I did okay and it felt good to be back.

Came home and finished off the crate box planters and then about 2pm had brunch of 3 of 4 basted pork loin chops. Like the ones I had the other day from Lidl, so tasty and so much nicer than the belly pork.

My crate box planters bought from Aldi for about £1.99 each. They were plain wood cheapo boxes lol.

The pink one with cat n witch is dedicated to my mum because the children nicknamed her granny witch (a good witch of course lol)

About an hour or so later I had the 4th chop.

Dinner was sauted piri piri chicken n melted cheese again like the other day.

@Fangs yes we are pretty lucky that they do the packs of chicken slices that just have the spice on the edges but no sauce. Cant abide the sauce ones. These type are perfect for peeps wanting a snack or making sandwiches up which of course we don’t do lol. They give me a good sized meal and I usually feel fairly satisfied after eating with a bit of melted cheese. Sometimes I can pick them up in The Comoany Shop for anything g between 20 and 60p when they are at their use by date so I just chuck them straight in the freezer for another day. It doesn’t matter how many you chuck in the freezer when you know its something you eat a lot of!

robintemplin · 2021-12-11 23:09:54 UTC

Wow… a lot accomplished! Love the planter boxes!

Ketodaisy · 2021-12-12 00:34:54 UTC

I went ice skating for the first time in my life last night. I was as terrible as I knew I would be and am truly meant to keep both feet planted firmly on the ground. But I did it! Today’s omad was a thick New York strip, some beef liver, and a pizza toppings omelette. They ordered pizza before skating last night and sent one home with us. I peeled off the toppings and added in my omelette. Not as good as my bacon/feta omelette but still tasty!

robintemplin · 2021-12-12 01:52:23 UTC

Ice skating! Haven’t gone in years. wouldn’t attempt it now. Good job, you!

Fangs · 2021-12-12 11:51:37 UTC

@Ketodaisy
ice skating. I am from the North and did alot along with dowhill and cross country skiing. I am glad you went ice skating! I never did too well at it, always scared I was gonna fall on my face but skiing oh yea black diamond expert type. Now that I could handle HA

@Karen18
Granny Witch, too funny. I saw the halloween cat and witch and I thought, hmm, but you explained that well. You are doing alot of work on your garden. A final done pic with planted flowers and more is gonna be nice to see later.

@Azi
great post. and I also have to watch me about the ‘old baggage of dieting’ trying to come into play. Gosh I think it is so ingrained into us LOL but I know I love living my life without it!

@Septimius

You are ok I get it. In fact come Jan. I am deciding to EVER ever SO slowly make some VERY small changes. I am longer on plan than you and I can’t shift off this damn last 20 I want gone. Come along for the ride. Key being we must watch each and every one of us doing this. Dieting on carnivore is not good. It really is not. We can trigger again a ton of old dieting issues and start cravings back and more very quickly, so we must go low and slow on checking some changes on ourselves. Where we are on plan and how we are eating and how we change a TINY bit will be very personal to each of us.

We can’t ‘restrict’ but we can change our eating content. Which is why picking a few days to eat leaner is good but we also can’t ‘eat less’ than ya know…but we can change up how our kcals are coming to us. In the form of a fatty meal or in a form of a bigger portion leaner meat meal. This is what carnivores do but DO IT very carefully when wanting to play in this food game realm on our plan.

Good thing is Dana put it into words so it can help one make sense reading it all and kinda getting a gist of what one can tackle a bit on carnivore to effect more changes.

New people should not be doing all this stuff. New people on zc must eat all they need, all the time. THAT is the key to healing the body and balancing the hormones and more…but once longer on plan we can shift and change a bit. Must be done slow and easy. AND it won’t be no rapid weight loss time LOL it will still be a lifestyle eating change up that will shift off some weight but must be a constant for us also on plan.

When I start my Jan. WL thread for ZC…I will be chatting up more about all this but Dana’s info is kinda where we are starting at
Plus Dr Kevin Stock puts out good info on how to lose some lbs too and he always says one thing, be wary of the Devil in the details of how much ‘you change’ yourself on carnivore. Too much and we screw us up for sure. So it has to done slow and easy. Which is what I am gonna do.

OK we can all chat up that in January for us ZCers that what a bit of a movement change. We get leaner and meaner on carnivore, but that is also not a weight loss change per say, as in shifting off some fat off the old body quicker and can take a very long time for us to lean out more and more. Body composition isn’t just a fast miracle thing for any of us That’s a long term, years and years in kinda thing. But we do see changes which is nice of course.

OK I know in Jan. I am going after a few goals that I am going to address…so forward we all go!

---------------got a ribeye defrosted and probaby pair up wtih shrimp for first meal later. Tonight I got some chicken tenderloin strips to sautee up and munch on.

right now appetite is going down a bit. I truly find eating my BEEF as my first meal is somehow very crucial to me. I can eat pork, chicken, etc as first meal and then I find I am still hungrier, but that darn beef as my first meal really ‘controls my body’ in a good way. It may have to be my staple in life. Has been for a long time and I do well so best I keep that beef around Beef really is important on carnivore for the majority of us on this plan

busy day. off to get’er done. chat up later and everyone have a fine sunday

Ketodaisy · 2021-12-12 12:42:27 UTC

Agree with this so much! That’s what I did to myself this summer. Took almost 3 months to recover to a place where I feel comfortable making small changes again (omad). The saddest part is through all the psmf stuff, I never lost any weight at all and am right back where I started.

Naghite · 2021-12-12 16:10:56 UTC

Yesterday’s meals started with a 17 oz ribeye(I ate 15 and gave the dog 2 oz). Second meal was 150g of Jarlsberg cheese and then bacon eggs and escargot.

I missed my normal vit pills of liver and mussels, I’ll get them today.

Fangs · 2021-12-12 17:37:34 UTC

hey KD didn’t ya lose the 10 lbs you gained up thru your journey but in the end, when ya kinda ‘did a tad more’ than just eat a bit leaner and be sure to eat fattier thru the wk too, when ya did that PSMF is just ‘too restrict and controlling’ that is wrecked ya a bit more?

I think it was ya gained up some and then decided to just put a few ‘leaner days in your week’ and just keep it there…then you went into PSMF which got ya worse?

I think I got that right in your journey LOL

-----For me guys, I am doing ONLY 1 thing. I am just eating, maybe 1-2-3 days per week A TAD LEANER on my meat choice in the day but I am not ever eating ‘less’, I am going to eat more of that lean meat to be sure I don’t ‘upset the apple cart’ in my body. So I will ‘feel out if’ 1 or more days, can be leaner and I wanna see how I do on just that? Very personal journey for each of us.

Fat works one way for us in our plan.
Protein works another for us in our plan.

THAT is ALL we have to work around ya know. There are no plants/carbs or junk ever to ‘consider’…so since US carnivores only have fat and meat protein, how we play with those 2 items can be very cruical to us.

So for me personally, what I do is to get maybe— 1 or 2 lbs down PER month doing some fat and protein flips in my wk and see where I end up in a month. Which is why I am saying it is extremely important to never compromise my other benefits in life I get from this plan

Many carnivores tried the dieting game even longer term and can screw themselves up badly so I read enough to know how I walk this path MUST be very slow and careful and not one time will 1 lb off my body ever be more important than me being on a great eating plan like I have that gave me so much, peace of mind, off carb cravings, off the crazy dieting plans and tracking, and as much as I want these last 20 lbs gone, if I can’t get them gone, tough in the bitter end LOL I know I can’t give up this eating lifestyle cause I do and feel so well on it daily in my overall well being of life that I just can’t let some lbs take that all away from me. NOW this is my thinking on it all guys.

But when I start the Jan WL for me, it is going to be very very simple.
Very very easy and ‘not over controlled’ in any way and I AM giving ME a darn year to see where I end up So this ain’t no ‘going to diet off the lbs full speed ahead’ at all from my point of view on it all.

OK just a chat on me and what I aim to handle.

this is a good chat for alot of us who wanna try a bit but we have to be careful on that forward path!

@Naghite
we know your poochie loves you
my dog is small. Papillion. So he gets carnivore all the time but luckily for me, he is a midget and doesn’t cost alot to feed from my meats LOL
I hope you don’t have a big dog but I am sure your dog follows you around with your steaks just like mine does

Karen18 · 2021-12-12 17:40:46 UTC

No plants yet. We’ve just had high winds over the past few days (calmed down now) so I didn’t want to see anything planted go flying around the back lol. Because I am not a proper Gardener and its all new to me I am taking my time and doing some research as to put what where and what type of plant and what is going to survive the frost and snow and any freezing temps etc etc. I want yo get it right cos they ain’t cheap those there plants lol! Will def pop photos on as and when I have planted my first green something!

Ketodaisy · 2021-12-12 17:42:59 UTC

Yes exactly , I had gained over 10 lbs doing high fat carnivore and when I went to leaner meats (like you plan to do in January) I lost the 10 lbs back. But doing psmf, I didn’t actually lose any (down 2 lbs and back up 2 lbs here and there). So I saw great benefits to not adding copious amounts of fat, but no benefits to having psmf days. It only threw my body and hunger signals out of whack!

Very large omad today. Ended up being more than I planned, but my kids didn’t eat part of theirs. Flank steak, filet mignon (plus my daughter’s well done filet . She is having a hard time with certain foods after c-19. Things don’t taste right to her). The bacon from all 4 of our filets (was only 3, but my other daughter said it was too burned for her ), salmon, and the skin from all 4 of our’s salmon. I certainly don’t prefer well done meat, but I wasn’t going to let a filet mignon go to waste!