Resistance to sunburn on Keto

(Jessica ) #41

I wish I got this side effect. I have always burned and still do. Last two weekend I have been in the sun for kid’s soccer…burned.

(joievawter) #42

@rein, yes, I don’t believe in just putting on sunscreen to protect oneself from the damage of sun & preventing skin cancer.

Many sunscreens are filled with dangerous chemicals for us and our skin is our biggest organ and much passes through it into our system.
Sunscreen also blocks all UV rays and we need both UV rays, especially B (B is the burn ray, the shorter ray, it is also the ray that our body uses to take some of the cholesterol in our body to make the Vitamin D we so desperately need and it only makes exactly the amount our bodies need at the time). We also need the A ray (A is the aging ray, the long ray).
The rays balance each other. Here’s the deal though, because the UVA is the longer ray, it reaches us all the time the sun is out. The UVB ray is shorter and only reaches us for a short time while the sun is out, that time is between 10a-3p, outside of that, we are exposed to only the A ray and that is when we should cover up or go in the shade rather than slather on sunscreen.
Now, I know there are times when life requires us to be out in the unopposed UVA ray, that is when I might apply some coconut oil if I am still looking for fun in the sun. Coconut oil has a natural low SPF between 4 & 8.

I used to be severely vitamin D deficient. It has been noticed that, deficiency in Vitamin D is dangerous and related to many autoimmune issues like MS and many cancers.

When the Vitamin D level is optimized, it reduces cancer risk by 66%.

Most melanomas show up where the sun don’t shine and occurs in more people that use sunscreen, avoid the sun, and work indoors.

The annoying but not deadly basal cell carcinomas show up in the people who play out in the sun regularly after 3pm while the UVA ray is not balanced by the UVB ray.

I will add more and some links, I just wanted to give a quick-ish response as to what I have learned and where I am coming from before bed.

Be back soon. :wink: :sunny: :wink:

(joievawter) #43

(joievawter) #44

(joievawter) #45

(joievawter) #46

(joievawter) #47

(Rein) #48

Wow! Thanks a lot for the explanation and links. I will study this.

(joievawter) #49

My pleasure. :sunny:


I’d like to weigh in on the sunscreen/vitamin D issue but first:

One caveat–Mercola is NOT a reliable information source. Not only does he try to sell you solutions (a first big RED FLAG that he is not in it for the altruistic pursuit of truth), but almost all of the articles there are click-bait. There is a reason he no longer is a practicing physician (spoiler alert: the state of Illinois was going to take away his license)

University of Texas agrees:

Many of his recommendations are actually deadly:

I have to be honest: anything he recommended, I’d think seriously about considering the opposite.
sorry for the derail. I find Mercola a dangerous lying liar who is in it for the money, a new and more diverse Andrew Wakefield.

About Vitamin D deficiency: speaking as a mathematician and statistician: for most USians, our angle to the sun has more to do with vitamin D deficiency than with wearing sunscreen. Hundreds of thousands of years of evolution had humans working outdoors all day long and near to the equator. it’s only in the last tens of thousands of years (a blink, evolutionarily) that had humans moving further away from the equator, where the sun exposure is not as effective. Exposure to the sun will most likely NOT make up the D deficiency almost all of us have. And you don’t have to believe me–get tested, find out how your D levels are, say in a month around the equinox… maybe I’m wrong (I’m just a stranger on the internet, don’t know you or your life). Personally, I live in Portland, OR, though, so there’s only four months of the year where MAYBE I can get enough sun if I stay outside all day (still that pesky angle problem), so I know I need to supplement D. (I have links for the math but not at the tips of my fingers–I can get that for you)

In the meantime, I’d like to show you a randomized trial where hundreds of people either continued to use (or not use) sunscreen as they had vs hundreds who were assigned to change their habits and use SPF 15 sunscreen daily. The results–after being followed for more than a decade–were a statistically significant decrease in squamous cell carcinoma and more significantly, a statistically significant decrease in the more deadly melanoma where those who weren’t in the “daily” group (but still probably wore sunscreen sometimes, since they weren’t asked to change their habits) had more than twice the number of melanomas.

And since the groups were randomized, it is possible to make a causation inference–not the case with most studies.

BTW, this study was paid for by the Australian government, not sunscreen makers. (Note: everyone in the study was white, I believe, so the size of the effect may be different for different ethnicities)

I have yet to find a credible study where the application of sunscreen to ones skin was shown to be dangerous, so if you have a link to one, please send. (I have seen ones where ingestion or injection were dangerous in rodents, but since we neither inject nor eat sunscreen, I am still looking for a study that is relevant.) Even then, it’d be a trade off between something that has been shown to help prevent an entirely preventable cancer and… well, I don’t know what yet.

Please use sunscreen.


I liked the post and for the most part I think the statements, conclusions and opinions were clear and supported, but I can’t say that I agree or disagree with everything, although I do limit sun exposure and even when I’m outside for extended periods and don’t use sunscreen I wish I did - not because of sunburn since I don’t seem to burn anymore on keto, but mainly because of the changes in my skin from the sun exposure - I can see a difference and I don’t like it.

The only thing I would respectfully suggest to @kari is that instead of something proscriptive/imperative such as “Please use sunscreen”, to something personal and anecdotal such as, “Given the information available, when I’m outside I always use sunscreen”. It’s not a violation of forum policy to use the former, but I think most people will react better to the latter.

(joievawter) #52

@kari, your stance on Mercola is moot with me. All good sound health doctors & professors of nutrition are put on as quacks. For example: Tim Noakes, Gary Fettke, Jason Fung, Robert Lustig, Andrew Wakefield, etc.
Just because he chooses products to endorse, put his name behind and sell does not make less of a very knowledgeable alternative health doctor in my book either. I stand by him as a source.
I research outside of him as well and much of the research backs what he points out because he uses those scientific research articles to back his articles and many times he even interviews, works with many of the great other alternative health & professors of nutrition.
Like I said, I am perfectly content & confident in using him as a source, I have been for 18 years and I have yet to be steered wrong by him. He also claims when he makes a mistake and rectifies it.

As for your other links I will gladly read them and I am appreciative of you for them.

My Vitamin D level tests Optimum (69).
I live in MI. I am outside everyday I can be in the sun with only 40% of my body covered between 10 & 3 for about an hour (this is purposefully sunbathing I do). I do this from April as soon as I can until late September. Them Nov-Feb I supplement with a sublingual Vitamin D 3. I get my levels checked in May and October.

(Bart) #53

*note: While I state facts in this rant, it is still a rant and my opinion. Not looking to fight with anyone and do not plan on responding any further. I apologize if I say things that some may not agree with, but hey this is my OPINION (with some facts attached), I am not a doctor (not that that would matter anyhow, look how they do nutrition) I only play one with my significant other.

I am pretty sure there were humans in Europe 1.2 million years ago, with the migration starting around 2 million years ago. It takes us humans about 60-70,000 years to genetically evolve completely, so the away from the equator thing for many of us from European genetics, should have been taken care of long ago.

Now the angle in of the sun in the sky and when people are out getting the sunlight is another story. May be deficient due to this, but not from an evolutionary perspective.

Also there are probably genetic defects some folks may carry that just does not allow their bodies to produce the vitamin D as they should.

As I stated in an earlier post, I am a wildland firefighter that works outdoors all summer long in the sun, and I am still Vit. D deficient. (No proof but I think I may have something else going on in the genetic department).

When it comes to Melanoma, the highest risk group of developing it are non-Hispanic whites, who have a lifetime 2.5% chance of developing it.

In 2017 in the United States 1.3 million people are expected to die in automobile accidents while only 9.730 from melanoma. NINE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED AND THIRTY. Only 87,000 people will be diagnosed with some form of melanoma in the United States in 2017.

Look all I am getting at here is FOR ME, and I want to stress FOR ME PERSONALLY I am not worried at all about the time I spend out in the sun, and I fall into the non-hispanic white category,. If I was going to be concerned about melanoma I would be insane to drive to work everyday, or ever take a road trip.

Zinc Oxide and Titanium dioxide sunscreens (mineral) from what I understand pose no real risk, but if you start slathering the chemical based ones all over you there is probably a better chance of the sunscreen harming you than the sun.

Oh and one more thing, working in a profession that sticks me out under the glaring sun for the majority of the year I have only known 2 people who developed any sort of melanoma. Hundreds of co-workers over the last 16 years. Both those cases the “freckles” were removed in the Dr. Office.

To conclude my little melanoma rant… I find it particularly interesting that starting in the early 1970’s the rates of melanoma started shooting up. All sorts of bad things started happening in the early 1970’s health wise. I attached a nice little picture below.

Ok, I am done with my rant and am not going to talk about sunscreen and melanoma any more. I need to get out side and walk around in the sun for a while in order to plan my drive home from work. That dang drive is the most dangerous thing I am going to do today, and most days.

(Rein) #54

Thanks for this contribution.

I am leaning towards the pro sunscreen side, even after reading the contradicting sources cited earlier.

Also, I think there are two things being mixed up a bit: skin cancer and vitamin D deficiency.

To be fair, even if sunscreen contributes in a significant way to vitamin D deficiency – for which I could not find any sources that convinced me – I personally would still rather get my vitamin D elsewhere and protect myself from skin cancer. Nothing wrong with some sockeye salmon, I’d say ;-).

Also, I find the point that only so and so much people die of skin cancer rather crooked, to me this insinuates that one should only take risks seriously if they could lead to death. Skin cancer is a treatable, yet nasty condition you’re unlikely to die from. However, if given the choice - I’ll pass, thank you.

So I guess I’ll keep putting on the sun screen, but I will look for trustworthy brands that I feel are actually good for my skin. So I did learn something, thanks to all of you! :smile:

(Jessica ) #55

So about that theory…this happened today with sunscreen on :joy:

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #56

erm…? I think this is a massive exaggeration. I think you’ve quoted some wrong statistics from somewhere.

See here for example:

35,092 in 2015. That’s still far too many of course. (We have about 3,000 per year in the UK I think…also too many, but better than it used to be). The population of the USA is about 5 times that of the UK, so you “should” have “only” 15,000 to be at the same relative level as us.


I find that I’m less likely to burn since starting LCHF / Keto / IF / F. I’m not sure if it because of the diet change required to treat DM2 or because I stopped using sun tan lotion at the same time as my vitam D level test came back very low.

I like getting 30 min sun daily when there is enough UVB then cover up or avoid sun to avoid getting burnt.

I use the free app “dminder” to calculate how much D is made for a given sun exposure.

I enjoy the vitamin D3 science Ivor Cummins reviews in his debacle presentation. I’m sure it has been posted before but it is good to watch again.

(Becky) #58

Are you serious?! I have been mosquito bait my entire life! OMG! I am so excited!

(Bart) #59

A good read… It appears those UVB rays may not be as bad as we thought, and sunscreen may not be doing much other then preventing a burn.

skincancer.pdf (705.4 KB)

(Mike W.) #60

I would like to revisit this. I laid out the other day for about 15 mins per side :joy: and ended up getting pretty red. I’ve really noticed no difference in sun resistance since going Keto. As always, n=1.