Ready to Quit

[Diego86]

Right…I have tracked all carbs apart from when I have avocado. I’d be amazed if I’ve ever went above 20g of carbs. All my foodstuffs are labelled and I do track. For each person saying I’m eating too much carbs then why am I constantly tired? I also see many experts online and on YouTube saying too much or too little of anything is why it’s wrong. Too much fat, not enough fat…too much veggies, not enough veggies…too much water…not enough water…,too many calories…don’t worry about calories…
It’s really confusing but I’ll stick it out a few more weeks. Thank you to everyone for the suggestions

[Chantarella]

@Diego86
I never lost one gram while eating nuts. And alone from what you are listing, I can tell you have too many carbs. I dont know what you are using for tracking macros, but nuts have a LOT of carbs. Almond milk has carbs, eggs even have some carbs. Plus all that snacking can never let your pancreas relax. So I dont think your math is coming up right. And if you cant stand it for hunger at night- that is when you should have a bulletproof coffee- maybe a decaf. At least that won’t up your insulin. Good luck because it would be a shame if you gave up without having done Keto properly.If all else fails- check out headbanger on YouTube. he has a formula for starting out on keto with 3 meals day which might help you.
Oh and as for your question about why you are constantly tired- your body is probably struggling between burning fats and burning carbs for energy. You have to give it no choice but to burn fats and then wait for the body to adapt. (Unless you have an infection right now? Corona can make people feel very very tired!)

[ellenor2000]

Just to clarify some ground rules about keto outside of the US & Canada: In Europe and the United Kingdom, the food labels display net carbohydrates under “Carbohydrates/Glucides.” Add fibre to this to get total carbohydrates, if you are counting total carbohydrates.

I don’t know where you shop or really GB currency and prices but I’m going to guess that if you spent £150 per week feeding yourself that sounds like a lot of food!

For £150/wk, he better be second only to the Queen at the dinner table. I doubt it even costs her that much to eat (going off of the cost of production since the royals do have their own farms).

Right…I have tracked all carbs apart from when I have avocado.

There are no freebies. Avocadoes have carbs and shuld be tracked as such.

For each person saying I’m eating too much carbs then why am I constantly tired?

Carbs make some people tired, but were you tired before this?

Too much fat, not enough fat…too much veggies, not enough veggies…too much water…not enough water…,too many calories…don’t worry about calories…

I feel like salt is the thing people don’t talk about that they should. And yeah you probably should drink more water, IF you feel thirsty.

I would have to agree with @velvet - you’re eating too many carbs. You have veggies with every meal, tomatoes are very high in carbs, so are walnuts and nuts can be the biggest problem (“some nuts” usually equals waaaayy too much), avocados are high in carbs…

I think the issue is that the net carbs logic doesn’t make sense in Europe, because in Europe the net carbs are the carbs on the label, not the total carbs (carb+fibre).

I’m anemic and have health problems I’m dealing with.

… Do you like liver? Just an offhand question.

[Ruina]

Have you ever checked out Dr Westman’s page 4? It is designed to work for just about everybody. It is a bit more restrictive than other people’s advice, but it works.

Basically: unlimited fatty meats, 1 cup not starchy veg, 2 cups leafy veg. This is per day, not per meal. And the veggies are optional, not required.

Avacados are great on net carbs, but actually pretty high on total carbs. Lots of fiber. Some people say you don’t have to count fiber. And if that works for you, great! But it doesn’t work for everybody. Also keep in mind, a serving of avacado is one HALF. I’m not into eating a half of an avacado and saving the rest for later. So I don’t have them every day. As long as I have one at most every other day, I figure I’m good. That may mean a stretch of a few days with one a day. Don’t want the gems to go bad after all. But then double that many days at least without one.

Nuts are fine if you can control the amount. But many people find they cannot. Myself included. If I need to lose, I need to not eat nuts. Berries are the same. If you can control it, or are on maintenance, they make a nice treat. But they aren’t an every day food.

Page 4 is a good place to start. If you find you don’t need to be as restrictive after you get that under your ever loosening belt, you can add more things like nuts and berries.

[ellenor2000]

I’m under 20g every day according to the packaging labels on the foods. I do measure everything apart from the avocado.

How are you calculating “net carbs”? The logic in Britain is not the same as the logic here in Poutinelandia.

[Ruina]

This is really helpful.

Keto Is This Easy

Keto is this easy (aka Keto for beginners) Quick Version This is for Phase One—the starter phase. It’s still not complicated later, but this is the really easy-to-explain version which will help you no end. Eat under 20g of carbs a day (usually 20g net when starting, but for some people 20g total carbs works better). Don’t worry about the scale. All it tells you is weight, it tells you nothing about body composition, even the “smart” scales. Eat plenty of good food—fat and protein—whil…

[Meerkatsandy]

My opinion - only veggies eaten as whole veggies should be counted as net carbs, pureed veggies, processed foods, baked goods, etc. always count total carbs, our body’s not stupid…which ever way you calculate it, nuts+avocados+tomatoes are high in carbs.

[OldDog]

I do measure everything apart from the avocado.

I would not trust food labels for nutrition information. They are concerned with labeling laws and not your health. They have some fudging room, and they play it to the max. Take special note of the serving size. Often it is un-realistically low so they can leave out a nutrient that they don’t have to list if it is less than a certain amount.

You might do well to see how many net carbs an application like Cronometer comes up with based on your actual measurement by weight, not measure by volume.

Volume measurements can vary greatly depending on consistency.

Also you might want to use Cronometer to keep an eye on your calories consumed. While we try not to count calories as a rule, when first starting out, it’s good to get a feel for what we are consuming.

It can still be easy to over consume otherwise healthy foods, such as oils, dairy and nuts because they are very caloric dense.

At some point, your satiety will adjust and let you know how much is enough. Early on we can overeat before satiety kicks in. Expect it to take months instead of weeks…

[David_Stilley]

I think there’s been too much emphasis on “you aren’t doing it right”. You’re on the right track but need to refine your efforts. Personally I lost weight eating all the foods you listed except the nuts and nut milk. I eat a fair amount of tomatoes when they are in season growing in my yard, sometimes 100g or more per day. I ate nuts sometimes as a treat, one ounce or 30g. I limited cheese trying to loose weight, 2 ounces per day max. I basically avoided snacks after about the first month. For me it was a process of sharpening my efforts as it became easier to eliminate certain foods and work towards a more strict approach. Avocados I ate regularly, but half of one large per day is plenty. My method of storing the leftover half is to save the side with the seed, put it in a plastic bag and get all the air out you can with the bag laying on the cut part to cut down on exposure to air and refrigerate. The next day it just takes a lite scraping of the exposed flesh to remove the brown. Pop the seed and your good to go. I count net carbs so an avocado serving is like two carbs. I ate them everyday when they are cheap (winter). The point I would like to make here is that any food can be eaten in a ketogenic diet. It’s just that portions may not be satisfying for foods not commonly considered KETO. If you can eat 1/4 of a peach and be happy it can fit in. It may not be worth the carb price tag though if you can eat triple the amount of raspberries. You can even have a teaspoon of sugar if you’re willing to spend 5g of carbs on it. Is it worth it, no it’s not but you can still be in ketosis if your daily total of carbs allows it. We’re all different and the 20g of carbs is what most people can eat and be 99% sure they’re in ketosis. And then there’s the guy who can eat 50g and be ketogenic. There is always the person who’s so metabolically deranged that they must go down to 10 or even 5g. of carbs to be in ketosis but they are like 1 in a 100. So what I’m saying is all the foods you’re eating could be fine, quantities may be too high if you aren’t weighing. And there’s many a downfall in tracking apps. All tomatoes are equal generally in apps, but cherry and grape tomatoes are a lot higher in sugar than a Roma by weight. There’s natural variations in sugar content of produce. So don’t use measurements like one cup of broccoli, get a $10 digital scale if you don’t already own one and weigh stuff out, at least until you become good at eyeing portions. It’s way more accurate.

Maybe you and I were in a similar starting place. I lost about 65 lbs in a year starting out, that got me into a maintenance range where I could relax because I had learned to eat. I also saw better progress shifting from three meals to two daily without snacking and slowly closing my eating window down to 5 hours. Eat big at meals, enough to get you to the next one. If you need a snack make it fatty. I didn’t snack on pork rinds, they were an occasional treat because I can easily eat a large bag and when I did that was counted as a meal. So I smacked on salami or pepperoni and an ounce of hard cheese like Asiago. Personally I found tracking all macros to be too much effort without real understanding or benefit. There’s a tendency to focus more on trying to hit macros exactly and not listening to my body. The only thing necessary is careful carb tracking, and eating protein and fat as you desire. Learn to listen to your body, don’t eat so tightly tied to the clock. Sure get your rough times down. You’ll adjust to your eating schedule and quantities necessary to carry you but it takes time to adjust. Drop snacks as soon as you’re comfortable but don’t go hungry and don’t eat carb foods for a snack as has been previously stated. If you aren’t willing to eat meat or eggs for a snack you probably aren’t really hungry but your brain is saying “time to eat something yummy”. Learn to differentiate between hunger and snacking impulses. If you’re truly hungry eat. But don’t eat stuff that’s so palatable that you can overeat it or eat it just because it tastes good or because it’s allowed. I could easily eat a pound of strawberries if they’re really delicious even if I wasn’t really hungry.

[Chantarella]

@David_Stilley
I am not sure if you are helpful or harmful to newbies. One certainly cannot eat " a little sugar" because it will make an insulin spike immediately. And that makes us ravenous. The rule of thumb is: no bread, no pasta, no sugar and no potatoes. Your laissez faire, super relaxed explanation is not such a good thing for people who are trying to figure out what to do, IMHO. Its hard enough to find the discipline without poking the insulin bear. And I could never eat so much tomato because that has way too many carbs for me. And when you write that we can eat anything, people can tend to take that verbally. NO- we cannot eat everything. i have to count my carbs and restrict myself. Keto is lovely but it isn’t a free for all. You just make it sound like it is.

[David_Stilley]

Sorry if the truth bothers you @Chantarella. Facts are facts and I can back what I said up. I stated that sugar isn’t a good idea. And shaming people with you aren’t doing it right isn’t helpful either. I don’t eat sugar myself, my point is that if you can do it and stay in your carb allowance you can be in ketosis. It’s a common bit of information that isn’t considered. The guidelines that are generally adhered to make sense because high carb foods aren’t worth consuming because the amount you can have is too small to bother with and generally not satisfying.

There is no keto rulebook

Here’s a tip: Don’t get too anal or dogmatic about anything. That’s a recipe for disaster. If you want to adopt this as a permanent lifestyle, it’s important to relax and keep it simple. There is no “one true way” to be on a ketogenic diet. There are also no rules. Or rulebook. The only criteria is to remain in a state of ketosis If you get bullied or chastised for eating a very low carb Joseph’s pita because it has grain, if pearl clutchers come out of the woodwork because you ate an artifi…

From Brenda, one of our resident experts whom I respect,

“You may cross paths with an anal keto dieter who will attempt to shame you or insult you by saying you are a “dirty ketoer” or that you do not practice true keto. They may state that you practice “IIFYM Keto” in an attempt to make themselves feel superior. (IIFYM = If It Fits Your Macros). Some will judge you for occasionally making keto sweets or low carb alternative recipes.
Seriously fuck them. They aren’t going to succeed long term. They need to focus on themselves, not judge others.”

[Chantarella]

@David_Stilley
So you don’t eat sugar after all. There you go. How confusing do you think your words are for a newbie?
I am not trying to feel superior nor am I trying to make him feel inferior. I am trying to clear up the confusion. Keto is wonderful - but it is not a free for all. You cannot graze all day and eat nuts and not count your carbs and expect Keto to work anyway. It does take some effort. Have never had a diet hat was easier- but it doesn’t mean I can do whatever I want. But you make it sound that way. Sometimes people look for a bit of guidance, you know? I certainly did when I first arrived here. I was ecstatic, but then I realised that there are certain limits.

[Ruina]

I eat sugar.

I will sometimes have a square or two of 85% dark chocolate. I sometimes eat some beef jerky with about 2.2 grams sugar per serving. Both have sugar. I sometimes eat raspberries. That is fruit. Fruit has sugar in it.

[David_Stilley]

but it doesn’t mean I can do whatever I want. But you make it sound that way.

Perhaps you need to read my post again because I clearly stated the opposite of this Chantarella. If my point wasn’t clear to you with the lengthy explanation it is not a free for all.

[Diego86]

Thank you

[Chantarella]

@Ruina
You have been on keto since 2018 and lost 40 lbs.
Then we also have the carbs which cause a quick insulin spike and other carbs which cause a slow and more measured release of insulin.
I think for newbies it is a different ballgame. People here HAVE warned me against sweet and low carb online products but I didn’t listen either. Now i know that the labels are false. And last but not least, getting into ketosis is not that easy for some.
Our Diego here has been GAINING weight on keto- so obviously something isnt right. To tell him he can eat sugar is not a good idea. Not all carbs are alike.

[Chantarella]

@David_Stilley
Yes, we will let Diego “refine his efforts” as you have written. We both want him to have success. You tell him he can do it in a relaxed manner, I tell him he might have to tighten up.

[Saphire]

Having been low carb and IF for almost 3 years, next week is my ketoversary, I think there is a lot of truth to what you say. Everyone is different and has different carb tolerances. I recently tried and failed to go dairy free, if anything the opposite happened, I was so frustrated with not having dairy that I would cheat and blow it and go off the rails for a week or more and gained 10 lbs or more. I had reasons for wanting to go dairy free beyond weight loss but I am sort of relieved that this is not an option with everything that is going on since I am fairly limited in my keto food selection (I only like beef, chicken and turkey and cannot stomach most fatty meats). I hate most fish and while I will eat vegetables I do not consider them something I enjoy. I manage and am not complaining. However, I do well on fasts and have mostly lost weight by doing extended fasts and using keto to maintain the weight loss between fasts but will not do them now because of the virus. I actually started fasting before I started keto which I think made me not hungry. Also fasting was good because it taught me I could go into the kitchen and not eat (have to go in there for a bunch of other reasons all day as it is on the way to other rooms.)

However, I have a friend who is the opposite. She was previously very heavy and an atkins dropout, she tried time restricted eating in May 2018 and lost a bunch of weight. Eight hour window, whatever she wants without eating in excess (not keto). She is obviously more metabolically healthy than most people but clearly I am not. Different prescriptions for different people.

What really helped me in the beginning was being able to eat low carb versions of things I enjoyed since meat is not my thing. So I would make fat head pizza, konjac noodles, veggie baked potatoes and so on. This way I did not feel deprived.

Also, a few months into it I went to a lot of wedding type parties, I would have one bite of cake or other desserts, I found that it did not call to me in the same way as before where one bite would lead to another. Instead one bite would be nice, sometimes two but then I would put it down and move on. I think I enjoyed those bites more than I did eating a whole piece at other times. Again this was a rare thing at a party. I think everyone has to do what works individually

[Blessings]

I know that taking an hour walk 6 days a week helps me. It has the opposite effect of making me tired during the day. I could get up in the morning sluggish, go out for my walk and be energized. I stopped walking for about 3 -4 weeks, not long ago and I noticed how tired I was getting. Plus I had to up my electrolytes. When I first started Keto, I lost a whole bunch of water weight in the first week and a half, , but in the very first weeks, as I was losing fat, I felt like I was getting thicker and puffier at the same time, even though the scale was going down. Into the next couple months, I started noticing my body changing slightly in some areas. I don’t know if you have only been doing Keto for 3 weeks, but I would say give it more time to fully adjust, with what’s happening in your body. I went through some shifts. Changes will come eventually, if you stick to it. Happened to me for sure.

[ava_ad0re]

You will be doing yourself a disservice by quitting now.
Give it another 3-6 weeks to become adapted.