Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet

(mole person) #161

Shoot @FGH, I’m sorry, I completely missed this post.

No, this isn’t right at all. 400 grams is the total weight of the raw meat. All of it, fat and lean combined. 133 grams of protein is way past any PKD protocol.

Now, 400 grams is just a starting point. You are meant to target blood glucose between 70 and 80 (70 is better) and ketones between 2 and 3 (3 is better). You modify the quantities of meat and fat depending on the results you get. So if you end up with super high ketones you can drop fat a bit and if you end up with super low glucose you can increase the meat portion a bit and vice versa if your results go the other way.

(Bunny) #162

I grew up eating cow, goat brains those are called tacos de sosa, you can usually find tongue and cabeza tacos where that is bought or found also which is really tasty too, I was not really aware people had such a hard time getting something as simple as cow brains or the brains of other species of livestock.

I can walk down the street from my house right now and get these kinds of tacos or burritos they are really delicious. Wed. nights is usually street taco night that’s when they cook in the parking lot of local restaurants on BBQ grills and make all different kinds of street tacos.


@atomicspacebunny We’ve got a restaurant that sells brain sandwiches but other than that, it is super hard to gets brains here. I have a butcher who can get me some but I have to keep reordering because oftentimes he comes up empty. Wherever you live, it sounds like lots of fun and lots of yum! :+1:

(Kristen Ann) #164

So I’ve been following this thread bc I’m interested in hearing about how you all are doing and if it’s improving your health issues. I don’t have intentions of doing this diet, but I can’t wrap my head around two things:

The 2:1 fat:protein by weight and the daily 400g of food by weight. So for example, you’d eat a 4.7 oz sirloin steak and then 9.5 oz of beef suet/fat? How do you eat that much fat? And with the 400g of food daily, that’s only 14 oz of food… I think I would be starving, (though that’s still ~2500 calories so maybe not?).

I’m by no means knocking this diet, if anything I have mad respect for you guys. I don’t think I have the balls or willpower to eat like this (especially when it comes to brains), but I definitely see how the ratio might fix health problems.


My digestive system has greatly improved which has made this worthwhile for me, but it would sure be easier to eat regular carnivore. Folks who are battling autoimmune issues find help on this diet though so that’s why I’m trying to stick with it. Eventually I would like to go back to regular carnivore.

(Kristen Ann) #166

So you are eating 9oz of fat or so?

(Windmill Tilter) #167

Can’t be. Surely it means by weight of the actual macros, e.g. 100g fat to 50g protein? This is pretty close to the ratio of 73/27 ground beef. I eat a lb each day, and it has 124g fat to 68g protein, and 1400kcals.

9oz fat would be something like 2500kcal all by itself! Sounds yummy though… :yum:

(Justin Jordan) #168

It’s mentioned a coupe posts up that it’s RAW weight, for what it’s worth.


Yes, this is by weight like Don_Q says above. My daily cals (just because I track them for now) ends up around 1350 to 1400 cals too with a 2:1 fat to protein ratio.

(Kristen Ann) #170

Ohhh that’s very sustainable and makes 1000x’s more sense! I’m glad to hear that its not by scale weight. I can’t imagine eating over 9oz of fat… lol.


DId anyone hear Ted Naiman on HPO podcast? He was saying how your blood sugar should not change after eating a lot of protein, and this only happens in metabolically unhealthy people. He was adamant about this, but it doesn’t seem to fit with PM’s experience, nor my own. I notice a blood glucose increase even after eating a relatively high fat meal, and definitely after eating high protein. Is he wrong? Or does this mean I am metabolically abnormal? It seems to me gluconeogenesis is not demand driven as he and a lot of other people state.

(mole person) #172

Your supposed to eat about 400 grams of meat and fat by raw weight. The actual breakdown of the fat and protein macros come in at 2:1 by weight but what follows is what it actually looks like.

Paleo-medicina says to get these macro 35% of your plate should be white fat and the rest red meat.

Remember, that sirloin has a good chunk of your fat macro in it. Your just topping this a little higher with some extra fat. I’ve actually found that really fatty short ribs are the perfect 2:1 ratio all by themselves.

I’m actually loving this diet. I’m not even weighing or measuring anything because I’m testing my ketones and glucose and hitting Paleo-Medicina’s targets daily so I suspect I’m pretty close to their recommendations. I do add a good sized hunk of beef fat to every dinner which is already a very fatty cut of beef.

(Kristen Ann) #173

So it is by weight and not macros? I’m so confused… So if you were eating 400g (14.1oz) of food, so you are eating 4.7oz of protein and 9.4 oz of fat? Some of that fat is also in meat source, but wouldn’t it would be impossible to calculate how much ribeye weight is due to fat vs protein. How do you know short ribs is 2:1 fat:protein by weight (not macros)?

(mole person) #174

It is demand driven but what everyone seems to get wrong is that protein metabolism is one of the major drivers of that demand. But not everyone sees it when they test blood glucose after eating. This is because unlike with carbohydrate consumption insulin is causing your circulating glucose to enter cells while glucagon is working to replace it. So there is always added glucose in the system but it won’t show up on the glucose readings as a big spike.

What Paleo-medicina is concerned with is not post protein-meal blood glucose spikes but rather a more general elevation in blood glucose. Basically they find that regular high protein consumption leads to elevated fasting glucose as well as low blood ketones.

(mole person) #175

No, because most of that meat weight is neither fat nor protein but water weight. It’s the same with the fat. It’s a combination of protein, fat and water. Mostly water. Also fat weighs way less than lean. That’s why they tell you how to eyeball it. You just take 400 grams of raw meat and fat and eyeball 65% red and 35% white. That gets you in the ballpark.

I don’t actually do any measurements. I never weigh my meat because I’m pretty certain that I’m not over 400 grams. I make sure that I eat plenty of fat. What I do do is take my blood glucose and ketones to make sure that I’m hitting the targets. If I weren’t then I would start being more meticulous. The point of the macros and quantities is to achieve a deep ketogenic state that encourages healing. That’s what you are really targetting.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #176

It is, but there’s also a release of glucose slow and steady if you’re digesting protein. Glucose bonds between amino acids are what protein is. Digesting that releases. A slow stream of glucose. But gluconeogenesis happens in the absence of protein digestion when necessary. :cowboy_hat_face:

(mole person) #177

I just thought of another breakdown that Paleo-Medicina offers to help make it simpler. By grams, of the 400 total, you want 300 grams of lean to 100 grams of fat on your plate. So that is 3.5 ounces of fat not 9.5.

(Kristen Ann) #178

Oh ok. Jeez you’d think they’d just report macros instead of this weight business. Thanks for clarifying.


I am similar to you, just watching things here as an outsider… It seems 400g is the weight of the fat and the meat, not just the pure fat and protein, that’s why people wrote they eat way less then 9 oz fat…
I don’t know how people know the macros of their food, I haven’t the vaguest idea about my ham (except it’s extremely fatty, way fattier than the pork chuck I usually buy and that’s obviously not lean either), I try to track but it’s lots of guesswork. It’s no problem now as it’s smoked ham and I eat a tiny amount of it but when I eat mutton and a way bigger amount, I am in the same situation, I simply have no idea how fatty it is… I am a newbie at it but I can’t imagine I ever will be able to guess the fat content of my meat. Maybe the people who do PKD buy it with some correct label…? My meat has no label at all.

To me, it’s amazing people can eat that fatty on carnivore and I wonder if they need some training to do that as I definitely will need it even though my goal isn’t that high fat:protein macro now (I easily ate way more fat while I ate a significant amount of plants on keto, I even could eat certain tasty fats alone if I wanted but it suddenly changed on carnivore, I am a newbie at this). I imagine if someone has a very good reason, it motivates them but still, the body might have some difficulties first… I feel very lucky that I am healthy and my current 1:1 ratio works almost perfectly for me now but I have to learn to eat a bit fattier soon.

(mole person) #180

Because Cronometer has told me so. :grin:. But also, I pick the fattiest ones. To me they often look 50% white which would even exceed 2:1.