Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet


(FRANK) #1

Anyone following the PKD protocol as set forth by Dr. Zsofia Clemens at Paleomedicina in Hungary? I am looking for tips and suggestions on how best to achieve the 2:1 fat to protein ratio. I am also interested in achievements under this protocol.

Thanks in advance.


#2

@ReneeRC


#3

They say they are getting good results using PKD as a therapeutic approach to some serious acute diseases.


#4

I’m trying to follow the PKD (thank you, FrankoBear) but I’m only about 1.5 months in. I was regular keto for 3 years before that. Regular (strict) keto was helpful and I saw some improvements with my health but I’m trying the carnivore/PKD to see more. I wrestle with many auto-immune issues and I’m older so it may take me longer to see any big results. I believe the folks in Hungary have said, for instance, that crohns can take at least 6 months to see big improvements.

So far, I’m really enjoying carnivore itself. My only problem is that when I eat 2 to 1 fat/protein I put on inches around my waist although the same thing always happened when I tried to do the same ratio on regular keto.

As far as trying to get enough fat for the 2 to 1 ratio, I like a variety of fat options. Sometimes I’ll eat raw suet (genuine suet) and other times I’ll use rendered tallow, pork or some other animal fat. My favorite way is to buy extra fat trimmings and bake them in the oven low & slow, yum. Also, don’t forget the organ meats!

Like I said, I’m new to carnivore/PKD but eating meat now seems totally natural to me somehow like I’ve been doing it (or should’ve been doing it) for years. This is super surprising for me since I wasn’t really a meat eater before this.

I hope you see great results on the PKD. I’d LOVE to see them open a clinic over here. We’ve got carnivore docs here who could be a part of that. :slight_smile:

Edited to add: @FGH Frank, remember too, that some folks doing the PKD are put on nothing but some kind of creamed meat mixture for 30 days! If, like me, you are tackling some big health issues, be sure to arm yourself with patience.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

My current keto fat:protein ratios are: 2.59 grams and 5.82 calories, calculated from 100 gr of protein and 2800 total calories per day. Until a month or so ago (and the previous 2 years) they were 2.93:6.58 respectively, calculated from 90 gr of protein and 2800 total calories per day. I decided I wanted to eat more protein without increasing total daily calories, so reducing fat was necesary.

I simply add lots of fat from multiple sources to everything I eat. I weigh everthing and use a spreadsheet to do all the calculations. Works well for me. I am 74 years old. I eat plain keto including lots of dairy, coconut and palm oils, some nuts, mostly walnuts, lots of oily fish and beef and pork liver pâtes.


(Elizabeth ) #6

I am eating carnivore as a permanent lifestyle change, I enjoy eating my two or three pounds of meat a day. The only way I would try PKD would be for a serious health issue. To me it’s too restrictive and I’ve done that my whole life :slight_smile:


#7

Yes, unless someone has big health issues to deal with, I’m not sure why they would do the PKD version. It IS restrictive and from many accounts that I’ve read, regular carnivore seems to offer better health too.


(It's all about the bacon, baby!) #8

Dietary ratios are calculated in terms of calories, not weight, so it’s not all that difficult, given that fat contains 2.2 times as many calories per gram as protein. So a ratio of 8.8 g of fat to 1.0 g of protein should do it.


(Bob M) #9

For the PKD, they are using 2 grams fat to 1 gram protein. So, twice as much fat by weight, which is about 81 percent fat by calories. For 2,000 calories a day, that’s only 380 calories of protein, or 95 grams a day.


(traci simpson) #10

Have you ever gotten stomach issues going carnivore in the beginning?


(Doing a Protein Sparing Modified Fast) #11

Shouldn’t it be 1:1 in grams?


(Elizabeth ) #12

What kind of issues do you mean? there are a lot of different changes that are happening in your body depending on what you were eating previous to carnivore, but are you having any symptoms?


(Elizabeth ) #13

That’s what most carnivores eat but the PKD therapeutic protocol is 2:1


(traci simpson) #14

Second week carnivore and I’ve had diarrhea since Saturday. I know I had pico de gallo with some meat so I’m wondering out if it’s something like that.


(Bob M) #15

Too much fat and I don’t get along. If I eat really fatty meats like sausages, I get upset stomach/bowels. I have to combine fatty meats with lean meats.

I have not analyzed whether this is OK with pure beef fat, as I can’t bring myself to eat it by itself.

Also, I think PKD is likely incorrect. The idea is that we would have eaten a lot of fat. However, that would be highly variable and depend on the status of the animal. It’s likely in the spring, for instance, your meat isn’t going to be as fatty.


(Elizabeth ) #16

Pico is 100% not Carnivore, try full Carnivore and see if that helps


(Elizabeth ) #17

If you look at their actual protocol it isn’t designed to be ancestral it is a therapeutic protocol. Everybody gets the same treatment there is no variability, everybody comes off medications, no dairy, honey is allowed and some fruits and vegetables. https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/paleomedicina_hungary_%20therapeutic_protocol


(Edith) #18

I had the runs quite a bit my first attempt at carnivore. This time things are more normal. I think it takes time, more time than you may think, to adjust.

I’m eating more meat this time and not adding extra fat.


(Elizabeth ) #19

part of it is your colon needing to relearn how to handle liquid without fiber. Gall bladder/liver making more bile to handle fat/protein. Lots of metabolic changeds happening. Ounce or two or cheese if you tolerate dairy can help.


(FRANK) #20

According to Dr. Clemens at Paleomedicina, too much protein is what leads to diarrhea, and not the fat. I will say that I have had issues with too much MCT oil that sent me running for the hills. Rendered fat doesn’t give me the screaming GI’s , but does cause nausea. Maybe try cutting back on protein.