Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet

(mole person) #322

That’s so interesting. Any idea what the reason might be?


Thank you! It’s mostly due to my delicious fatty ham and other nice unusually fatty options, I choose my food a bit differently but it’s really not a challenge to eat them :wink:
I am never afraid of gaining (though it’s possible, I managed to do it, after all but it’s very hard and super slow for me on any diet) but I want to LOSE already. And I hate overeating, it’s wasteful and can’t be healthy (usually feels nice and sometimes inavoidable though). Carnivore helps a lot but I still need to be careful if I want actually lose.

No one personally told me tons of fat is bad to me as I remember or I didn’t listen. Fat was inevitably my primary fuel all my life, I can’t not eating much fat. But I realized it satiates me unwell (more experiment is needed regarding the various kinds of fat but my body is usually simple: protein is satiating, carbs make me hungry, the type doesn’t seem to matter. but I never ate lots of unrendered fat before and there is longer-term carnivore too) so I focus on some nice fatty protein and never the mostly fat stuff. That never ends well.
It’s hard to find balance sometimes.
I know I need to learn to eat fattier at some point, I can’t imagine I ever will stop having higher-calorie days and hopefully my energy need won’t get any lower. I like to be a bit active (I am usually not but I like when I am) and more muscles would be nice too. And I always wanted to eat more fat again (I probably ate very much in my high-carb days and I am careful since I went low-carb. Not always successfully but I want to eat fat without a care). Maybe the 2:1 ratio on carnivore would help with it even if my calories won’t be too high for me? Or I just will be hungry then? We will see.

I saw the lies on the Internet, though. Poor cholesterol, people still spouts nonsense about it. But considering what experts say, it’s no wonder simple people have no idea about things. And now when experts got more knowledgeable about it, people don’t look things up and keep being very afraid of dietary cholesterol. And it’s just one thing.


No idea at all. When i first went carnivore I did gain around 2 pounds but after a couple of weeks that came back off. With regular keto I just continues to gain so I had to really watch my fat intake. I wonder if the plants/nuts (oxalates) had something to do with that?


I love fatty ham and pork belly is delish too. :smile: Carbs make me hungry too so carnivore works well for me. I wish fat had been my primary fuel all my life. The only fats we had when I was growing up were Crisco and margarine, yuck! Talk about unhealthy. No wonder I never liked those “fats” yet the fat on a pork chop? Pure yum! Almost ever had those though. You are so fortunate that you grew up with healthy fats.


Unfortunately, my mom feed me chicken every Sunday but sometimes we had pork ribs. I LOVED that food, tasty meat and tasty fat galore! I kept remembering it during my vegetarian and almost vegetarian (when I ate meat at restaurants and relatives a few times a year) decades… I still couldn’t buy fresh pork from a farm and normal shops won’t do but I am sooooo looking forward to it! Pork is my absolute favorite but it must be very good quality. When I was a kid, our neighbours had pigs. The bar is very, very high and my tastebuds feel normal meat from the shops tasteless.
Margarine, yeah, we had it too, fortunately the top brand, not like it’s good but tastier that the cheap ones. My mom bought 1-2 types of not so great cheese too. She spent lots of money on food, she cooked great vegetarian lunches, I ate a ton but well, my taste wasn’t exactly like hers and carbs and me, it never could work well. My Mom loved white bacon. I don’t. But I always had as many eggs and dairy as I wanted so I ate lots of fat from those and my protein intake must have been high. I always got quite satiated even on high-carb. I just couldn’t avoid massive overeating all the time and I probably always will consider my daily energy need a pretty nice but not particularly big meal.

So it could have been better. I would have loved to have much more pork and salmon (my Mom never bought fish), even some fattier cuts of beef, slightly aged gouda and other harder but not too hard, tasty cheeses…
But I feel I was lucky, my Mom really cooked tasty food and I could choose what to eat, to a big extent.

(mole person) #327

My own theory is that regular keto just keeps insulin too high. That’s why so many people hit a ‘Phinney weight’ that’s a much higher weight than they’d prefer.

The Phinney weight is just whatever weight your body on its current diet is in metabolic balance between its insulin levels and net fat flux.

It’s complete nonsense that this represents “the weight that your body wants to be at”. I know from experience, that my body wants to be at different weights depending on what contribution I’m getting from various macronutrients and food sources.

Phinney himself is aware of this, but he just believes that people will not accept a more restrictive diet than the basic standard keto diet. His basic philosophy seems to be “if you don’t want to give up on food enjoyment then you will have to accept a certain Phinney weight”.

Of course this is an assumption on his part, that one would give up on enjoying food by having a diet that was more restrictive than standard keto.

My explanation for why the carnivore diet, and more specifically the PKD diet, seem to have better weight control than the standard keto diet, is that the mix of carbohydrates and fats that still exists on the keto diet continues to leave one more cravey and moreish then a pure meat diet. I think, that in the end, it just leads to overeating. And that overeating in turn results in higher insulin and a lower state of ketogenesis.

People keep insisting that it’s all about the carbohydrate content of the diet; but the carbohydrate content of the diet is only correlated with a state of ketosis via its effect on insulin. If insulin is being kept higher via other mechanisms, such as overeating or too much protein, then the state of ketosis will suffer and so will weight loss.

(Ruth Beardsley) #328

Update PKD

  • I am getting used to 400 to 450 g meat/fat every day.
  • Still a bit hungry
  • dropped 1 kg from 19 Jan to 18 Feb
  • It took 3-1/2 days to recover Blood Glucose levels to low (3.7 at mid day). Yesterday’s readings were G 3.7, K 2.8.
  • Still battling urge to have coffee
  • Quit tea
  • decided to stick with PKD for 3 months, then get my regular quarterly blood test

(Edith) #329

Have any of you lost hair as a result of changing to pkd and only eating 1kg of food a day?

(mole person) #330

Not that I can tell. But it’s actually less then a half a kilogram of food a day. 400 grams approximately, not 1000 grams.

(Edith) #331

Right. I meant to round to half a kilogram with my question.


@VirginiaEdie I lost hair the entire time I was doing regular keto. When I first went regular carnivore that stopped but after about2 months PKD it started up again.

(Edith) #333

I lost hair on keto until I upped my food quantity.

Then I lost hair switching to carnivore which stopped once I upped my food quantity. The 400 grams a day concerns me about my hair. I’m vain about having hair.

I’ve been thinking about PKD if my back troubles don’t improve over time on relaxed carnivore.
Well, I guess I could try strict carnivore before going all the way to PKD.

I actually have better ketones and fasting blood glucose on carnivore than I did on keto, but they are certainly not PKD levels.


Upping my food quantity on keto didn’t help me. I was doing strict carnivore (but eating more) when I started out and my hair stopped falling out. The only reason I’m doing the PKD is a bunch of auto-immune issues. I’d give strict carnivore a good try when you’re ready and see how that works. Whatever works is where we wanna be! :+1:

(Ruth Beardsley) #335

Hi Renee,
Are you able to stick to 400 g of meat and fat combined?

I have achieved low glucose and higher Ketones but seem to be very hungry. I don’t want to lose more hair either.

I have been eating 400-450 g meat and fat.

I often add 50 g fat at the end of the day if I am hungry.


Yes, I pretty much stay at around 400g a day. My appetite is still not very strong for the most part. I’ve got a LOT of healing to do so I’m not surprised.


If I ever get some fatty enough and not very expensive, smoked and even more importantly, very salty meat, I will try this 400g. It surely wouldn’t be enough for me longer term but for a while, maybe. Very fatty meat might be the most satiating food for me. I am very much into my fatty smoked ham now. I realized I more easily eat it raw and I don’t even feel it very salty, I guess my smoked chuck is the super salty one now and that’s not even fatty enough. But the ham worked nicely today. I should have been fasting all day but I just couldn’t, I felt too bad and ate. Fat only - of course didn’t work. Fat fast, maybe? Nope, my body is very adamant about wanting its protein. I ended up with 78% fat and so little food that my protein intake was super tiny, 56 grams. And I am so full! In the last week I always, always got hungry if I dared to eat below 80 grams protein… It’s very unusual but I did multiple things a bit differently today (and my past days tend to matter), I need more experiments.
I came a long way since my 1-1.2:1 fat:protein ratio on my first carnivore days… That was a bit wasteful even on lower-calorie days, I had to change it. And I wanted to know if something interesting happens at 2:1 even if I couldn’t buy organ yet and won’t give up my non-meat carnivore items as I am fine with them and I don’t have enough meat anyway. But I will, too bad they are lean (fowl. I buy whatever the farm I buy from offers. well, there will be a tiny amount of organ meat :D). But still a nice change :wink:
One day I will get lots of fresh, fatty pork from somewhere… It’s my favorite meat. Mutton would be nice too, again.
But I still can make a high fat:protein ratio with my food without big amounts of added fat, it just won’t be PKD. (Why do I want to try things too far from my older diets without a good reason, I don’t know.)

(mole person) #338

Oh wow, I did a random test yesterday after a few weeks of pretty good behaviour (still with the cream and coffee though…yah, I’m a coffeeaholic). My glucose was 60 and ketones 3.7 unfasted. My best ketone reading yet. Also I’ve been feeling pretty incredible lately. This diet really seems to be working wonders.


I’m jealous, lol. Those are awesome numbers! Since you are doing so well, why dump the coffee? Heck, if it works don’t fix it, lol. I’ve not feel all that good the last couple of weeks. I’m hoping it’s just another phase of healing. Sticking to this diet like glue though because the freedom of carnivore (PKD) has me hooked! :smile:

Keep on with these updates. When I grow up I wanna be like you. :heart: (And @Fangs, and @Elizedge …lol)

(mole person) #340

Mostly it’s because of an unresolved skin condition, exfoliative chelitis. The skin on my lips agressively grows and peels. It’s awful and I’ve had it for about a decade now. Keto didn’t help at all. But I think whenever I cut back the coffee it improves somewhat and whenever I fall off the horse it seems to worsen. Anyhow, I must do a proper experiment to find out. But I’m so a slave to my cuppa :rage:.

(mole person) #341

What’s been ailing you?