Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet

(mole person) #282

I really find myself trusting Paleo-Medicina. They’ve convinced me that their compliant patients don’t require any supplementation at all. When I was on the ketogenic diet, I needed to supplement a lot of salt as well as magnesium or I felt nauseous and had cramps. On PKD I need to add neither which is exactly was Zsofia Clemens has claimed is found in their diet compliant patients.

I’ve never felt good about the ketogenic claim that you have to eat teaspoons of salt every day. It makes no sense to me that our hominid ancestors would have had access to those sorts of quantities. This is yet another line of evidence that suggests to me the PKD diet is on the right track.

(Kristen Ann) #283

I wonder what the difference is? Are you getting increased salts from PKD or just needing less of it for some reason? Did you supplement salt on carnivore?


I never understood that huge salt recommendation either. But some people truly seem to need a lot. Why? I get it is different in the very beginning but later? Is it a not carnivore keto thing only? I don’t know but there are huge personal differences. I never supplemented salt, my 4-5g per day in my food is enough.

I don’t seem to need as much magnesium on carnivore, I never could totally stop supplementing magnesium before and now it’s fine without my pills, the usual cramps don’t come. Just eating extremely low-carb had very noticeable effects. I didn’t need PKD or even much meat for them, my body handles almost everything but not the carbs, not even in my old keto amount.
I don’t plan to try out PKD but a fattier carnivore sounds interesting, I will try that when I can afford the calories. I try out a properly meaty carnivore first :stuck_out_tongue:
Maybe these will be different… I learned no matter how healthy and well I feel, there is always room for improvement so it’s a good idea to try different things to find the ideal one (or just for the sake of curiosity and a new experience).

(mole person) #285

From listening to Zsofia Clemens it sounds like it’s needing less because of lower glucose not interfering with sodium uptake. So it’s not just the lack of carbs but also keeping protein not so high that is important.

(mole person) #286

So day one post chocolate I’m at glucose of 79 and ketones of 1.8. Not terrible, but clearly affected by the week long chocolate holiday. I’m feeling better already though. I don’t think I’ll have another big attack as long as I stick to being good.


But what about carnivores who eat meat only and don’t eat extra salt and sometimes eat unsalted meat? Are they just people who needs less salt than the average person? Many (probably most) carnivore eat quite much protein, even if it’s not too much, it’s more than adequate… So I thought it’s simply a carnivore thing… Or it is, usually but some people are more sensitive so more protein interferes?
And what is not so high? It’s probably a bit personal… I consider 1-2g/kg (net bodyweight) adequate in general, similarly to many people.

(mole person) #288

This is a good point. It’s also interesting that people on SAD don’t need it. It’s just the standard keto diet. But it’s not a function of ketogenesis alone since PKD delivers very high levels.

As for what is high I think 1 gram/kg of lean weight is plenty. I see no good reason to eat more.

(Ruth Beardsley) #289

I am eating 400 g of meat/fat combination and adding extra fat to that. I woke up HUNGRY this morning and ate 200 g brains + 40 g fat.

OMG I had a Lindt 90% Dark Chocolate holiday between Xmas & NY. It turned to concrete in my bowels. I LOVE it and just cannot eat it. I often had 6 squares a day. :neutral_face:

I trust PM also. I have binge listened to both Clemens and Toth. Apparently meat + high fat creates water so you need to drink less water. I use a bit of salt to taste.

I am off tea today and have a slight headache.

@ReneeRC thank you. I will test my G and K every couple of days. It will be great to reach the numbers.

My bowel movements continue to soften. I am expelling alot more than I am eating.

All in all I am comfortable with PKD. I think tea makes me hungry so it will be great to be without tea for the near future to see what difference it makes.

I have also dropped about 1.5 kg. I am thin so it will be interesting to see how my weight goes.

(Ruth Beardsley) #290

SUCCESS! I ate my brains for breakfast at 5:30 am. I tested my G and K at 12:15 pm.

G 4.3. K 2.9

Feeling grateful for the help.


(Edith) #291

There’s something about this statement that just doesn’t sound quite right. :joy:


:joy::joy: awesome sentence! :joy:
Hannibal reminiscent…

(Ruth Beardsley) #293

:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:. I ate some brains…

The PKD stipulates 60 G protein per day.

Ron Rosedale reckons protein consumption should be 0.6 x Lean Body Mass.

That would mean protein in the amount of 30 g per day!

I wonder if Zsofia Clemens talks about mTor.

I just finished watching the video from Low Carb Breckenridge…

(mole person) #294

That’s fantastic. Congratulations!! Keep up the good work.

I think this would be considered high for most women. Zsofia Clemens has said 50-60 grams of protein is correct for a 70 kg male unathletic male.

(Ruth Beardsley) #295

I think 400 g of 70/30 ground beef has 57 g protein. Perhaps I should reduce my serve to 350 g.

I will check my G and K levels over the next few dsys.

(mole person) #296

I think this is the best plan. Go with what the numbers tell you. You may actually need more protein than a sedentary man. You’ve told me that you are a farmer and quite active. I think in your case paying close attention to the markers is important to determining the correct amounts for you to eat.


@Matamoros Ah, nothing like SUCCESS!! Well done, Ruth!
“I ate my brains…” LOL, I’ve learned to be careful about brains now. I told the butcher I wanted to buy brains and got hit with some jokes, lol. Now I try to remember to put the word cow or pork before the rest of the sentence. :smile:

Any comments about that Low Carb Breckenridge video?


I’ve been struggling to not overeat these last few weeks. I also had one very naughty late night dark chocolate binge (Green and Blacks 80%) and have been overdoing the coffee every day since Christmas. But no more!

I’ve just realised I’ve been carnivore for a year now, and this anniversary has inspired me to go right back to basics. I’ve had no coffee for two days, and tomorrow I’m going to start weighing my food again. Part of my problem is living with someone else who is eating all the time. I find myself preparing food when I’m not actually hungry.

I’m going to prepare some pemmican rations for a weekend away. There’s something I find very pleasingly monk like about just eating pemmican. Good for resetting the craving brain. Anyway, this is all just a ramble, but I wanted to let you guys know this thread is helping me keep myself in check, it’s great to hear your experiences.

(Ruth Beardsley) #299

I watched that Ron Rosedale video and was curious about mTor. His recommendation for protein was very low. My lean body mass is 42 kg, so 0.6 of 42 is not very much.

I continue to read and learn, and I am keeping my protein at 60 grams per day for the time being.

My blood glucose was 3.7 and K 1.3 this morning so I will retest this afternoon before my second meal.

I am having champagne tonight with DH for Valentine’s Day!


@Flub Green and Black was my go to when I was doing regular keto. It was always so hard to limit myself to just one little square! {{hugs}}

That’s got to be super hard! :heart:

I love eating pemmican and I agree about the “monk like” feel to eating it. It also feels like I’m reconnecting with long ago ancestors who might have eaten that way back when!

(mole person) #301

Wow, wow, wow!!! That’s real progress. That’s a fantastic number to see unfasted.

My own update:

I’m now at 48 hours of GG-PKD (Good-Girl Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet). My glucose was 62 and ketones 2.2. I’m happy with the rate of return after a week of misbehaving.

I’ve discovered something that I really like making. I tried my hand at calf liver pate a couple of weeks ago and liked it fine but it wasn’t perfect so I tweaked it a bit and today’s attempt was freaking delicious. It’s going to be hard not to overeat it actually which is good because I can struggle to eat as much liver as I ought to. It’s not that I don’t like liver, it’s just that I usually want something else more.

Anyhow this is how I prepared the pate. First I fried up the liver exactly as I would to eat it with a meal. Basically to a perfect medium, lightly pink inside but not at all slippery. Then I chopped it to a super fine consistency (this results in a slightly chunky pate which I really prefer). Then I added about 100 ml of melted tallow for every 100 grams of liver. It may have even been more tallow than that. It’s very fatty. The final touch was a good amount of beef “gravy” from some slow cooked beef. I wanted the flavor profile to be slightly less livery. Anyhow, it is really, really good. And gets me craving something high in liver and fat which is awesome.