Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet

[Meerkatsandy]

I was debating carnivore and PKD with my husband last night, well, I talked, he pretended to listen…he is seeing the contradictory science we’re dealing with and he’a given up.
The one thing I am confused by is the diarrhea…I have read so many of you struggling with diarrhea until you finally find the balance that works for you. When do you begin to worry? I remember the story of a man with Crohn’s disease and his eight-month healing journey…I imagine he must have been very close to dehydrating many times and I really wonder how many nutrients are actually absorbed.

[Justin_Jordan]

Then listen to Dom D’Agostino and his research work on using ketone supplements to enhance the effects of hyperbaric oxygen therapy in cancer treatment. I don’t hear anyone calling Dom a quack.

Or Valter Longo (although, actually, I am positive I could find someone calling them quacks somewhere) but the keyword is research.

As near as I can tell PM doesn’t do research as such, in the sense that Dom or Longo do, so yeah, they’ve set the quackery bar low. But I don’t discount clinical and practical experience.

Given that they basically say everyone needs the same diet and that said cures essentially everything, I am deeply skeptical.

[Ilana_Rose]

After my 45 hour fast last weekend, I got bg reading of 70 and ketones of 4.1.

I had a blood glucose of 67 yesterday at 5pm only 5 hrs after steak for lunch. This is my normal when eating high fat carnivore. I’ve seen it as low as 57 while unfasted, and felt 100%. Similarly, my ketones at these same times are generally around 3. I imagine after 24 hrs of fasting they’d be considerably higher. Maybe I’ll test that this week.

[ReneeRC]

The one thing I am confused by is the diarrhea…I have read so many of you struggling with diarrhea until you finally find the balance that works for you. When do you begin to worry? I remember the story of a man with Crohn’s disease and his eight-month healing journey…I imagine he must have been very close to dehydrating many times and I really wonder how many nutrients are actually absorbed.

Not all folks get diarrhea. My hubby is also on this WOE and he (before PKD) had bad constipation. His bms are fine now and he never had any diarrhea issues. I wonder if the diarrhea in the beginning is possibly because of things like oxalate dumping, gallbladder issues, IBD/colitis issues, allergies and so on that maybe healthier folks don’t have to deal with?

[ReneeRC]

I had a blood glucose of 67 yesterday at 5pm only 5 hrs after steak for lunch. This is my normal when eating high fat carnivore. I’ve seen it as low as 57 while unfasted, and felt 100%. Similarly, my ketones at these same times are generally around 3. I imagine after 24 hrs of fasting they’d be considerably higher. Maybe I’ll test that this week.

I had a blood glucose of 59 once but mine usually stay in the 70s. Last Wednesday I did a super hard weight lifting session and saw my glucose hit 90. Needless to say, I’m back to easy workout mode again. Years ago I fasted at a fasting clinic and we saw blood glucose numbers in the twenties. That’s why that place demanded bed rest while fasting. Talk about absolutely no energy, ugh.

[Ilana_Rose]

@ReneeRC 20’s!!! Holy moly. That is crazy low.

[ReneeRC]

@Ilana_Rose Yes, I was way too weak to even take a shower. When I ended that fast though, I had an unbelievably INSANE amount of energy, omg!!! I would love to get that back which is one of the reasons I’m doing PKD. We were always under the docs supervision though and had our complete blood work done weekly.

[Ilana_Rose]

I have a terrible memory. Can you remind me again why you are doing PKD?

[ReneeRC]

@Ilana_Rose Major digestive issues! Also have other auto-immune issues like psoriasis, Raynaulds and etc, sigh.

[Ilana_Rose]

@ReneeRC Is it helping at all yet?

[Flub]

This. It’s the one size fits all approach, and the assertion that all modern diseases are caused by NOT following the paleolithic ketogenic diet. I feel like that’s a ridiculous claim to make, even if there is some truth behind it. It’s just not scientific. On the other hand I want to believe in them as I feel like this diet is my last hope of getting better, but I can’t suppress my skepticism. At the very least I think they need a better website which doesn’t claim that they can cure anything and everything.

[ReneeRC]

@Ilana_Rose It’s doing wonderfully well for my digestive issues and if PM is correct, then I’ll probably need to see those resolved/healed before the other auto-immune issues improve. I’m just so delighted to be able to go places without checking out where the bathrooms are. Earlier in the month when I was spending a ton of time at the hospital to be there for my friend who had a stroke I was so thankful that I could even do that instead of having to be close to a bathroom. I’m super excited by the PKD so far.

[David_Stilley]

That’s a shame as that info is complete bull…

But everyone with any sense knows that KETO is really dangerous and we’re killing ourselves. I thought all you guys knew that and that we are a food disorder cult.

[Ilana_Rose]

Omg, that’s wonderful. I’m do happy for you!

[ReneeRC]

I received this in an email today:

Complete Cessation of Recurrent Cervical Intraepithelial Neoplasia (CIN) by the Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet: A Case Report

(PDF) Complete Cessation of Recurrent Cervical Intraepithelial Neoplasia...

[Don_Q]

Paleo Medicina (PM) do advocate the refusal or removal of chemotherapy and/or radiation treatment in cancer patients. That puts the quack target on their lab coats…

That sounds batshit crazy. That’s the sort of thing it’s reasonable to recommend after your 10th nobel prize, and your clinics 500th clinical trial with matching peer reviewed article in a tier 1 medical journal. Otherwise, it’s hubris, its irresponsible, and it’s batshit crazy.

The duck shooters rise from the reeds of prostrate professional bodies to defend their learning.

This sentence is so good you should print it and frame it.

[Meerkatsandy]

All these reasons make sense, it probably takes a while for our bodies to figure out how to dose enzymes.

[VirginiaEdie]

There are people/kids who go on a therapeutic ketogenic diet for epilepsy who they refer to as hyper responders because over time they actually become cured of their epilepsy and no longer need to follow the diet. Maybe some people who follow the PKD can be cured over time and not need to be quite so strict with their ratios?

Of course, I’m not saying return to SAD, but I would imagine at least being able to relax things possibly?

[FrankoBear]

This sentence is so good you should print it and frame it.

Thank you sir, your knightship.

I can imagine it as a sequence in my next movie script.

That sounds batshit crazy.

Yes. But I realised I misused the word advocate in that post and it needs a correction. I heard Dr. Salad use the same ‘advocate’ word in the same context in his podcast with Dr. Zsofia Clemens of Paleo Medicina Hungary and she was quick to correct him. PM do not advocate the use of dietary PKD and excluding chemotherapy for cancer treatment. What she does is show a patient the science about the problems of chemotherapy, the short life extension that may be gained at the expense of a big drop in quality of life for that time. I didn’t dig into the literature to verify (yet).

[Don_Q]

PM do not advocate the use of dietary PKD and excluding chemotherapy for cancer treatment. What she does is show a patient the science about the problems of chemotherapy, the short life extension that may be gained at the expense of a big drop in quality of life for that time.

That makes a lot more sense. I’ve put my duck gun on safety and I’m settling back down into the reeds.