Not hungry?


(Consensus is Politics) #24

Better than booking marking anything from me, go find @carl recipe for the bacon roll philly meatloaf. It will be much better. Even my first attempt at it was fantastic, even if it looked like it just fell from the sky. It was indeed an ugly wad of meat. Now that I think about it, I wish I had pictures. It was very humorous if not humiliating :man_facepalming:t2::cowboy_hat_face:

He used pork rinds, as did I the first few times. But now I use chia seeds. Oh, you asked about nutritional info… ok…


(Rob) #25

Strictly speaking this isn’t true since a truly HCLF diet (with unbalanced macros like keto but with 85-90% carbs, 5-10% protein and negligible fat) seems to be similarly healthful like keto according to multiple significant clinical trials. It sounds really awful but seems to be proven.

Of course most people’s definition of a low fat diet is still 30% fat at which point your comment is entirely true and this is most peoples’ experience.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/what-do-faithful-keto-eaters-eventually-die-from/27654/50

It staggered me to find this but it does talk to the wonder of the human metabolism and that keto is not the only way (even if it is the best way) and it talks to fat as being the crucial mediating influence on the impact of carbs, rather than carb levels alone being the only driver of metabolic health.

What I find funny is that these truly HCLF diets used terrible processed carbs and created very healthy outcomes which still refutes stupid veganism :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


(Kathrine) #27

I think it depends on our genes and where we are from :slight_smile:

I’m from Scandinavia and if I eat a lot of tropical fruits and rice I tend to gain weight very fast. I don’t even like rice, so maybe it’s just my body trying to tell me something. I have to eat like our old vikings :)…
And I need way more than 10% fat if I eat hclf…

I have only heard that a hclf diet healed type 1 diabetes. Are you sure it also healed type 2?


(Rob) #28

Very long, but lots of evidence…


(Kathrine) #30

Nope most of the Scandinavians are type a, which means a vegetarian diet would be optimal for us, but I have tried to live in that way, but it doesn’t fit me, especially not if I only have to eat 10% fat.

The funny part is that i myself and many people with blood type A have very low stomach acid which makes it difficult to digest meat.
I have found out that I need healthy fats, and fats like olive oil is perfect for my digestive system:)
But - when that is said, I also think it depends on our microbiome. It’s said that all diseases start in the gut.
I have read a book named “The microbiome diet” and it’s about feeding the right gut bacteria and in this book, starches are very bad for the gut bacteria…
There are so many opinions and “studies” out there but the one who knows you 100% is your own body.

Personally I feel that I get very bloated when I eat starches but it’s also difficult for me to digest the food if I have been eating too much meat…
To be honest I think it’s terrible that people can recommend certain diets to other people even though they don’t know anything about the person…


(Kathrine) #31

But yes it is very interesting!
But I can really recommend the books about the microbiome… :slight_smile:
After I started to eat a diet which fits my digestive system I have literally got rid of my anxiety :slight_smile:
I had anxiety without a reason so it’s just amazing…
The stomach is the second biggest nervous system in the body and it’s directly linked to the brain…
it’s also proven that if you put the gut bacteria from a healthy mouse into the gut of an obese mouse it will actually lose weight.


(Rob) #33

I totally agree that your reactions to things are yours and mine mine, etc. but sorry, this Blood Type diet stuff is NOT true and was developed as a way to make fad diets sound pseudo scientific.

Keto works for all blood types, Kempner rice diet works for all blood types, gut biomes get deranged in all blood types, cancers grow in all types, etc. While certain genetic histories may confer specific tolerances or sensitivities to certain nutrients or diseases, like First Nations vs. T2, SE Asian alcohol reactions, etc. it isn’t their blood type that drives this. There isn’t even a consistent theory for the creation and distribution of blood types but it almost certainly isn’t racial or geographic.

Blood type theories of stuff are WOOOOO and get in the way of good science and good decision making.


(Kathrine) #34

Yep, I totally agree!
But this is relatively new science, but we have different “microbiome genes” which means that we have to feed our microbiome with different types of food…
We are still different… :slight_smile:


(Rob) #35

Absolutely… the gut biome stuff is very interesting but due to the lack of definitive science one has to be even more careful about endless amounts of voodoo designed to part us from our $£¥ etc.


(Kathrine) #36

Yep, the microbiome and the macros you need are two different things that’s true.
I don’t know if you know Dr. Mark Hyman, but he uses a “pagan” = paleo/vegan diet high in fat to cure everything from mental illnesses to diabetes.
The diet is around 70% of healthy fats and the last 30% comes from plants and proteins but you can still reach ketosis if you want to.
He is one of the only doctors who recommend a diet which fits me and my sensitive digestive system.
He has proven many times that if you balance your macros and heal your gut, you can lose fat without even trying.


(Rob) #38

To say that is both true (to an extent - the geography view of blood types is pretty discredited) but also irrelevant - it is a lagging marker to actual genetic traits and not a cause or driving factor. It’s like saying red hair is the cause of pale people getting sunburned. :grin:

To me, blood types are like religions, a search for answers when you don’t have any science to turn to… remember, correlation does not imply causation :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


(Kathrine) #39

Adam :slight_smile: I’m not a doctor but I would really recommend your father to check out the “pegan” diet :)! It’s high in healthy fats and vegetables and high in fibre and meat is only used as a condiment! Go check out doctor Hyman - he knows what he is talking about and he is educated in functional medicine :slight_smile:

I can really relate to the “overdoing meat thing”… I did also overdo meat and it stopped the whole system in my body.
I stopped eating meat for 4 weeks before I started to eat it again. I felt my digestive system was better but now I start to have issues again…

And yes it’s also proven that food allergies can cause autoimmune diseases and thyroid problems :slight_smile:


Keto or Paleo
(Rob) #40

You know that keto is not about meat (even if you like to bait the ZCs :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:). It is about macros and those can be sourced in many ways. How can you deny a person keto whose supposedly healthy Mediterranean diet has cost him his health and a leg. You feed him eggs, cheese, nuts, etc. and make them into a smoothie etc. if absolutely necessary. Or you let him go on the way he is (a perfectly OK choice)… BUT don’t blame meaty keto for stopping you from working to prevent further issues.


(Kathrine) #41

But don’t misunderstand me! Some people thrive on a high meat diet!


(Rob) #42

Yeah, most people in the US know Hyman… he has a symbiotic shill relationship with PBS so he appears to hawk his latest book every donation/pledge season.

I don’t think he’s a charlatan per se (though pretty close) but I certainly believe he is a salesman/business man first. “Creating” a more vegetarian keto is no insight as many have done it for years. Over the years, he’s pushed cleanses, pills, shakes, broths, calorie restriction, high fat, whole food, brain food, nutrigenomics (utter BS), and “carbs are the single most important food group you can eat”. In each has just ridden the wave of external trends, good and bad to sell more books and become stinking rich. His latest “conference” is $2800 a ticket… need I say more.

This one is one of more pitiful IMHO - Mash up Vegan with Paleo.
Since you can’t really mash Vegan with ANYTHING else due to it’s restriction, that’s already just marketing crap. He knows vegan is unsustainable, unpalatable and ineffective for most and paleo is buzzword bingo gold so he’s made the intellectual contortion to try to play off both for sales purposes and pretended he’s made magic by bridging the worlds. If he is curing anything, it is because he is wrapping up keto in his own marketing BS. All the things he claims to ‘cure’ are all cured on ZC, lazy keto, LCHF of various types, 65/30/5 paleo, etc.

I’m not saying that a veggie keto is not good for you (specifically) and your conditions but I wouldn’t give Hyman the Shaman the credit - it’s just another existing way to get your macros and for him to get to your $$$s.


(Kathrine) #44

Yeah it’s obvious that he recommends a keto/hflc diet, the problem is that he doesn’t use the words keto/low carb because they are both words we have seen before.
Yes I agree, much of it is business! I know how it works, but he still has his own experience/story and he also focuses on healing the gut!
It’s not all about macros… :slight_smile:
He is interesting and he has a big knowledge :slight_smile: Of course, he chose the easy way and decided to call it the pegan diet…

I find it very interesting to hear your opinions! No one in my family is interested in nutrition or the science behind :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: They think it’s calories in and calories out…