No-quit, No-carb No-vember (30 day carnivore experience)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #144

Regardless of the reading and the beeping, you don’t have hypoglycaemia unless you’re having symptoms. See the work of George Cahill and his team, reported in Starvation in Man (1971?).

At one point they used a euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp on subjects who’d been fasting for several days (so their ketones were high). They drove the subjects’ glucose down to levels that normally cause coma or death. But, as Stephen Phinney likes to joke, “The only people with palpitations and perspiring were the ones in the lab coats.” The subjects were all fine. Of course, the experiment was very risky, and no IRB in its right mind would allow such a test today, but it’s interesting information.

As Benjamin Bikman points out, the moral is that the brain is perfectly fine using ketones, and it needs very little glucose if ketones are available. He says it appears from his research that the brain actually prefers ketones. Cahill came up with an estimate for the brain’s daily glucose need that Bikman says is far too high, but nobody knows what the brain’s minimum glucose requirement actually is, though it’s apparently quite low. Of course, the red blood corpuscles must have glucose, and some other areas of the body, as well, so we can’t dispense with it entirely.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #145

The same thing has happened with cholesterol. Five years ago, the maximum healthy level of LDL was considered 150. (I remember, because my LDL was 148. I asked Dr. Berry about it at Ketofest, and he said not to worry.) Now the limit is 90, and they’re saying that even that is too high. And they are right, of course; studies conclusively show that the lower the “healthy” limit of LDL, the bigger the pharmaceutical executives’ bonuses.

(Judy Thompson) #146

There’s a prick as it goes in but I tried a regular glucose monitor a few years ago and it’s nothing like that. On the advice of my diabetic student I also bought a roll of waterproof medical tape as he said it was likely to fall off.
So in answer, no it’s not painful.
Thanks @PaulL and @FrankoBear, great wisdom from ya both! The fact that a body/brain running on ketones requires less glucose than one running on glucose is a patent no brainer, no wonder I didn’t feel weak.
As for whether I’m in ketosis - I have never passed a pee test for ketosis but can’t you just tell? That hyperfocus and energy alone are enough to tell you. And who said this - Chaffee? If you are carnivore, you’re in ketosis.

So in the 4 hours since the readings started I’ve bounced from 54 up to 109, 10 minutes later 69, then 75, 99, 67, 81. I googled normal fluctuations and saw that a normal person’s glucose generally ranges from 60 to 180.
(So why are we doing this? Lol)

(Geoffrey) #147

Meals today were a lamb burger with 3 eggs.

My son was in town for a visit before heading out tomorrow for a hunting trip so we went out for supper.
I had a rack of clean baby back ribs. Got a little more than half of them down before I had to quit. The rest will go good with eggs tomorrow.

Got home and put this bad boy on the smoker. 18lbs of brisket.


absolutely. So agree! in ketosis at all times. forever. but might not be ‘in active ketosis’ numbers that some register and are marked as being forced into ‘active ketosis’.

Our ketones now on carnivore will never be what a new person coming into a ketogenic state will ever be. We are totally ‘ketone burn bodies’ now and our ketones are not ever going to be under some ‘in active ketone’ burning body…so this point, all this ketosis and ketone chat, in a way in ZC is truly pointless. So many just don’t get that but they will longer they are holding a ketogenic plan. good post! :slight_smile:

Clean, love reading that!!! Rock it!!

-----------keeping mono zc mostly. today is NY Strip steak first meal, making 3 big country ribs for 2nd meal. done deal.
all going fab.


I don’t know this saying… Google didn’t give me a good enough explanation (I didn’t invest much effort and time, I am tired and borderline hungry, just popped in for a few minutes).
But didn’t have people eyes? I have a far from perfect but working set. And brain to interpret what I see.
The others are worse as how poor patient would know what is normal? I have a deep trust in my body so as long as I feel normal, I suppose everything is fine :slight_smile: But it wouldn’t even always a good idea for everyone.

I am pretty sure saying it with believing it often would heal us more than a prescription from the doctor… It has its limits, sure but there is some power there. I go to the doctor when needed (only with broken bones this far). But there are potential problems where I just don’t believe them so easily.

It’s fun even though I easily can imagine JJFiddle being smart and experienced enough to begin with… I already had my scepticism toward doctors on high-carb!
But it was a good sentence, I liked it :wink:

I think that too. And our optimum isn’t even the same as someone else’s, potentially on a different diet…

I woke up way too late. And had a small meal late… So I ate very well yesterday, protein went higher than I like but oh well. Still not overeating :smiley: Carnivore makes this so easy…

Today will be pretty normal, fried green ham, eggs, hopefully tiny dairy, some processed meat (the new one isn’t something I can resist for long but it will be better with sponge cakes. I planned to bake some but forgot and I have multiple other eggy plans anyway for today).

Wonderful sunny day, I collected some leaves before the almost sure rain tomorrow.

(KM) #150

It’s from some old self-help book. About a rat in a maze, and when he figures out where the cheese is and gets good at finding it, invariably someone moves it somewhere else. “Moved the goalpost” is maybe a clearer saying.

In this case, we used to have one standard for what was considered obese. Then suddenly, the experts “moved the cheese”, that is, they lowered the threshold, so there was a sudden jump in obesity, simply because what was defined as obese changed. And what a surprise, it turned out that those very experts who moved the cheese stood to get rich from more people and their doctors panicking over obesity. (They were either heavily invested or, IIR, actually on the board of Weight Watchers). Not that most people aren’t too fat, but that didn’t help.


Thanks. Moving the goalpost, I knew that.

It’s still super weird to me. I see if one is fat or not, other people can’t change that. And even my culture didn’t change beauty standards in my life… Not like that would affect me much, I have my own taste, after all. And I would aim for health (and keeping my figure easily) in my own case anyway. Except I am very very much not okay according to my taste. I suppose I am healthy (but it would be better with less burden. marginally but still?) and it’s very effortless to stay like this and nearly impossible to change - but I want that so the fight continues.

I ate a lunch at 3pm and a few bites before 6. It won’t be enough, probably but I am just too satiated now. Could eat something fun but I don’t feel like to push it. I may get lucky. 120g protein and 103g fat, not so bad. I did my half workout but I had plenty of energy from yesterday so maybe it will work? If not, I eat more pork later.

Still didn’t do the spreadsheet thing, I will bring myself to do it soon.

I think haven’t written enough about my spleen experiences. So, I had lots of pork spleen and I fried it. I won’t keep it in bigger pieces anymore as I like it very very very thoroughly fried. The soft parts make me gag, reminding me of raw liver and anything but that. It’s the texture. So apparently I need spleen even more well fried than liver and I pretty much hate too raw liver (like, pink insides, ew) already.
It was interesting, the first time it felt more unique and quite sweet, I liked it. The next time it was more liver-y, not as strong as chicken or pork liver, meatier but definitely a bit liver flavored. And I didn’t feel it sweet that time. I liked the sweet. As much as I hate meat with added sweetness, when it comes from the meat itself (organs do that quite often, subtly but still. I have read it about fishes and turtles…), it’s all good. Or can be. I never had problems with sweetish organs. I feel the need to enhance it so I will use butter next time, not lard. It didn’t help with the lots of lard on my hand anyway as spleen needs close to zero added fat. It’s just that perfect almost all alone :wink: Tiny fat, little salt, lots of small pieces, lots of time in the pan… Very, very nice. I will buy some every time I visit an Interspar :slight_smile: And I will make sure I visit it much more often in the future. It’s a bit further in the city and I use up all my patience and energy visiting the usual supermarkets, the extra Auchan visit is already a bit too much… But I will make it happen for spleen :smiley: And the lovely cooked smoked pork chuck ends! :smiley: The sausage meat is just like the scrap meat from the nearby little town but it comes in 5kg packages and not in 1-1.5kg if I am lucky to find the stuff… Sadly they produce lard and I still don’t know what to do with it. The only added fat I can easily use up is butter as I can just eat it as is… And it’s wonderful in sandwiches… Liver is still my best bet to use lard. I don’t even like scrambled eggs since the non-stick pans devolved into super sticky ones.
Maybe I can make some nice spread based on lard. Yes, lard is supposed to be that already but mine just isn’t good enough compared with my fav, butter. I used to make things to coconut oil but that involved plants.
I will need to make pâté… I am so lazy though. And I semi-failed a few times already. (The result was pretty much edible but not good enough. I can lose heart very easily sometimes.)

Alvaro brought 4 big chicken legs today so I will have some variety in animals soon :wink: I only had pork and a bite of fish in November this far I think… :thinking:
He will make curry with turkey, I may eat a bite or two from it, picking out the meat. But I will be fine with my chicken thighs. And my usual pork, obviously.
We have 33 eggs for a week unless we get more. We probably can’t do a whole week like that though I can do 1 egg days occasionally, we will see. I will try to drop my egg milks and eat as few eggs as I comfortably can. I do love eggs now and need sponge cakes for my “fancy” pâté. I ate some today but it’s very salty, not good to eat alone (or with properly salted fried pork).

(Geoffrey) #152

Haven’t eaten yet but when I do I’ll eat the leftover baby back ribs from last night and some eggs.
Leaving out tomorrow morning for a pheasant hunting trip in Kansas. Having learned some lessons from my last road trip, namely finding carni friendly foods while traveling, I’m going prepared this time.
Travel food.
1 dozen hard boiled eggs. Clean meat sticks. Clean pepperoni. Swiss cheese and Monterey Jack cheese. That should do me when there are no other options available.

(Karen) #153

Pretty wakeful night … took ages to get off to sleep and ended up downstairs watching tv till past midnight. I ended up with 8 hours under the belt but wasn’t our of bed till 9.40am :hushed:

Sat in the lounge to read books then decided to get off my fat behind which isn’t really fat… just a saying @Shinita :grin: …and do some stair running and did full 100 flights today so was well pleased with that. I have been slacking lately :slight_smile:

Brunch was the leftover shin beef cold which actually tasted better than when it was hot. The juices had set into jelly and tasted lovely.

Went round to Raymonds and helped him with some more shifting of furniture then came home and had dinner of 2 sirloin steaks n bacon followed by 3 hard boiled eggs mixed with bacon.


It hopefully has a decent amount of fat though, padding is very important there! :smiley:
I already find hard sitting surfaces not comfy and I have ~40 lbs extra fat! And I can’t float in sweetwater anymore :cry:
Oh well :slight_smile: I can live with that but then I wanna lose some more fat!
I hope a mostly carnivore January to May will be able to get off a few kgs (if I am really careful about my fat intake but I plan that. maybe I will have some experimental weeks when I eat whatever I like. but that will be more serious fat intake and I have been working since ages to keep it kind of low most of the time, I don’t want to undo that - but maybe a short time wouldn’t hurt.). Yes I totally mix normal SI and other measurement units. Just like my English must be some UK/US/sometimes AUS English mix. It’s not like I can tell, I pick up words from various places and I rarely know which English I use.

Oh I keep forgetting making such a hard-boiled egg bowl with something (what I have now? oh, smoked ham. it has even a cute amount of fat), it always looks quite a nice dish! But my last boiled-eggs ended up runny and I loved them that way already. But I will try it one day.

I hope my day is finished. I had a few extra bites soon after dinner.
128g protein, 106g fat. And 28g carbs on this carnivore-ish day. ~2g carb from plants (I ate 23g little tender cauliflower leaves in my scrambled eggs - why to throw them out? Alvaro doesn’t eat them but they are nice. could have skipped it but I saw them quite innocent and it was already not a pure carni day - and Alvaro had eggs in purgatory so I had them too, only with the tiny tomato puree stuck to my 2 eggs), 21g from milk, 5g from other items. I am quite satiated now at 10:20pm.

No coffee day #2. Today I remembered coffee is a thing (zero desire). It feels so far away :slight_smile: But I start to get bored of tea. Good thing I have lots of carbonated water now and I slowly started introduce warm water again. It’s cold, I want warm liquids.
Both the house and my room(!) went below 18 Celsius. And a rainy day comes so tomorrow afternoon will be the time when we turn on the A/C to heat.
Alvaro’s workplace is at 16C but the unlucky ones in the bad, open place has it at 12C (that building sometimes lack water as the pipes freeze). No sign of any preparation or anything about heating in the near future and at this point it starts to get needed. But this a bad workplace so the bosses couldn’t care less about the workers’s comfort. But there will be heating at some point and he won’t freeze, that is for the ones in the open building.

I don’t know why but I am not cold ever (except my nose), I just wear warmer clothes than before. Alvaro started to feel cold occasionally at home, he sleeps very unwell lately, waking at 3:30 or something. That is a common time for him, poor soul :frowning: He tries to nap in the afternoon but he never was good at that, it’s not enough.
But we will start heating :slight_smile: The house and us lasted long enough.

(Robin) #155

Where will you be in Kansas? Friends of mine are in Rush County to hunt pheasants.

(Geoffrey) #156

Syracuse. I don’t know what county that’s in. Due west of Dodge City just shy of the Colorado border.

(Geoffrey) #157

Just pulled the masterpiece of good old Texas bbq off of the smoker.



I’m not really hungry but I’ve got to have a slice of that.


I would need some very serious satiation to keep me from tasting :wink:
“Not really hungry” is what I have before some of my biggest meals (okay, I am very well-fasted then and I do get hungry after the first bites).

Tempting meat is tempting. I experienced that a lot. I need to know when to make food as I probably will taste it afterwards.

Smoker, must be nice to have one. And isn’t it nice to have LOTS of meat ready to eat? :slight_smile: I like that, not just have enough food for the next meal or day. More. Nice. Lots of joy in the future.


:flushed: Crikey. But what do the others get to eat?

(Geoffrey) #160

I left a little for the peasants. Wouldn’t want them to get spoiled after all.

(Judy Thompson) #161

Day 2 of tracking blood sugar and NO I’m not diabetic in any way, shape or form.

I might have to contact some famous carnivore Dr about this upcoming colonoscopy prep because the stuff you drink, first of all is flavored, and secondly it is a LOT of it and I fear it will turn me inside out. What to do. It was bad enough when I ate a “standard American diet” and did this prep. This is only one day of prep where before it was 3 or 4 days but jeepers. (Drink 8 oz every 10 minutes, fasted.) This comes up in mid December. I know it’s not designed for a person with no fiber or starch in their body.

Nice day today, grocery shopping. At the restaurant I got a hamburger patty with cheddar and an egg on top. It was soft and good but I forgot to take a pic. Tonight I had 2 eggs and sausage, it was too much. I’m used to 4 oz liverwurst but planning to stop that for awhile because the ingredients in Boars Head liverwurst are just a tiny bit off.

And into the weekend we go! Catch you on the flip side.

(Judy Thompson) #162

@Geezy56 incredible brisket!