Nightshades and Inflammation

(Bob M) #61

The laws/rules are different everywhere. In NY, I think you can get raw milk, but you have to go to the farm to do so. In CT, they allow it to be sold in stores, but it’s really hard to find. Even Whole Foods doesn’t have any (at least the one I looked at didn’t have it). I have found it in one local “normal” store (but small, as in only a few stores in the state) and one “specialty” store. I’m currently getting it from the specialty store, which is small and has a ton of unique stuff.

#62

Hungary.
I never saw it in a shop but raw milk is sold in trucks (they sell various dairy :slight_smile: NOT cream. raw cream is impossible to find) and when I lived in a town with a dairy farm, one supermarket had a… maybe I can call even that simple mechanism a vending machine…? It was on the street side of the same building.

I like raw milk because it’s not only tastier raw but tends to be properly fatty, not that 2.8-3.6% supermarkets have (usually 1.5% and 2.8% but it’s not hard to find 3.5-3.6%, it’s just more rare and expensive).
But I don’t bother with it, a very tasty normal one appeared in most supermarkets lately and I already drink WAY too much milk… Milk is super easy to drink in huge amounts.

#63

Really enjoyed this wrap up! Perfect

I would add, as a lay person, that most of the youtubes I have listened to about meat causing cancer or shortening lifespans comment that, first food surveys are generally worthless, if I was not fasting I could not have told you what I ate yesterday and neither can most people. Second, the people that enjoy steaks, wings, and the bacon burger at McDonalds, often are not the ones exercising and worrying about whether their food is organically grown, so overall lifestyle plays a huge role and any adjustments for it are a guess. Finally, the meat is not eaten in the context of a keto or even whole food diet but as part of SAD

@VirginiaEdie I have one that is diagnosed as Celiac and another child who says it upsets their stomach so avoids it. Both carry the Celiac gene. Some of their siblings still eat wheat. I recently took a little break and had wheat and the heartburn was beyond horrible. This happens if I eat wheat for more than a day

While I like to eat at night I think it is not the healthiest for a few reasons, first insulin and melatonin according to a podcast I listened to, interfere with each other. Also, it does change your circadium rhythm. However, if you are eating a steak at midnight that is usually the test of if you are hungry. Whenever new people come on and say they are hungry, the question that is always asked is if you would be willing to eat a plate of eggs or meat. If the answer is yes, then you are hungry, if you really want dessert, then you are probably not. Can you try eating more earlier and see if you are less hungry at night. I find I am hungry at night but rarely in the morning so I think it is just a craving but that is me and everyone is not the same

#64

Sorry, that was kind of a cliff hanger. Honestly… not sure. I went full on nuke, did EVERYTHING that’s supposed to help digestion. I’m thinking most of it was the Peptide BPC-157 as it’s used a lot to fix digestion and leaky gut, and probably half from a probiotic I was taking (P3-OM) which is also given the credit for fixing digestion and leaky gut while simultaneous putting in good, and killing bad bacteria.

While doing those I was taking digestive enzymes, drinking peppermint teas, beef collagen, I was literally hitting it with everything. But end result, I’m fixed. I can have normal dairy now (prior, I could only tolerate raw dairy) which is why I knew it wasn’t a real dairy problem, raw dairy comes with the enzymes / bacteria already so knew it was something along those lines and I no longer bloat let I’m a pregnant dude.

I got a bad habit of trying a couple things, then going straight to everything there is. No patience.

My food sensitivity tests showed an immune response to Cow’s Milk, and a decent one to Whey, but near none at all to Casein, which was weird. I did another one like two months ago, Casein is still fine, and now there’s much less of a response to the Cow Milk and Whey, it shows it on a sliding scale like blood labs. There was a couple others that were in “problem” range that aren’t anymore. Still shows a response, but nothing I’m noticing on my end, although some of them aren’t things I normally eat either.

The one that can show the cross-reactivity is super expensive so don’t think that one’s happening unless I start having issues again. That ones the Cyrex Array 10 if I remember right.

#65

It’s effortless, my share was a one time fee of $30, then you just pay for your milk. This is the place I used, they have locations all over the place and always adding more, but most are very affordable. The share thing is more about the loophole of doing so than anything, I don’t think most places are expensive with it.

https://creambrookfarm.com/

Also, they’ll give you a half gal to try it, you just gotta request it, there’s a place somewhere on the website for that.

(Edith) #66

So, interestingly, I used to have very strong reactions to dairy: joint inflammation, painful itchy rash, some digestive upset. The itching would start soon after ingesting the dairy. The joint pain would kick in the next day. Then I did my seven month carnivore trial. My reaction to dairy is way less. If I have a little bit of cheese, I break out in a few itchy bumps, but I don’t get the terrible joint pain. I have a feeling if I ate a lot of dairy over the course of a few days, it could be another matter.

I do believe my carnivore trial must have healed something because I couldn’t handle the tiniest amount of dairy before that. Unfortunately, even though some healing seems to occur, my body didn’t like full on carnivore after a while so I went back to meat heavy keto.

That’s why I would prefer to just buy a half or whole gallon of raw milk and try it first. I happened to see info about Creambrook Farm just this morning. I missed the part about trying a sample. I’ll look again.

Are you in Virginia?

#67

Ya, my skin sucks, got scalp psoriasis and sebhorric dermatitis, if my inflammation gets up, it shows!

On joints, aside from presribed stuff, one of the best things I take is Animal Flex, nothing special about it, just a joint supp with a little of everything in there, all the typical ones but for some reason that one actually makes a noticeable difference.

And yup, I’m in the Richmond burbs.

(Edith) #68

Both my mother and my brother have psoriatic arthritis. I believe dairy-free and low carb have kept me from developing it, but the tendency is there. My brother was a heavy drinker for years and his psoriasis was terrible. (He has never taken any medication for it.) He recently gave up drinking and his psoriasis has cleared up about 80% of the way so far.

One of the good things that happened during my carnivore trial (I say good, but it was no fun at the time) was I had a lot of oxalate dumping. My joints have been much better since then.

The other thing that really helped my back was joining a gym called 9Round Kickboxing Fitness. Something about kicking and punching stuff really helped my back. :woman_shrugging:

I have two kids living in the Richmond area: one in college and one just bought a house down there. I’m in Northern Virginia.

#69

If I dont eat by 9am I get really nervous and jittery and out of sorts. It could be the diabetes, Two months on keto and going strong

(Megan) #70

Hi Edith, I’m currently doing a carnivore trial and am 4 months in. What didn’t your body like about it?

(Edith) #71

Hi @MeganNZ,

It’s possible the troubles I had on carnivore were because I just couldn’t eat enough meat. On other carnivore websites, the advice always seems to be to get two pounds of meat a day. I seemed to average around 1.5 pounds a day. The other advice was if something was feeling off, electrolytes off, whatever, eat more meat. If I tried to follow the advice, I felt like I was force feeding myself.

One ongoing problem I had on carnivore was loose bowel movements. It wasn’t the kind where you can’t leave the house, but for the entire seven months it was liquid. I tried changing up protein and fat percentages, but it didn’t help. Stopping my magnesium supplement would improve the consistency, but then my symptoms from magnesium deficiency would return, so I would have to go back on the magnesium.

Which brought me to the other ongoing problem, my electrolytes. I have a hard time keeping them balanced on keto and carnivore was no exception. In fact, it was more difficult on carnivore because for most of my trial, I was also oxalate dumping.

The worst thing that happened was that by the time I got to around month five, my histamine intolerance went into high gear. Beef was the worst offender, particularly grass fed beef. When I ate beef, my heart would start racing and I would have violent diarrhea 30-60 minutes after eating it.

I pressed on for two more months, again following the advice of long-term carnivores, but the histamine trouble seemed to worsen. It finally got to the point where I just did not want to eat meat. My mind started thinking about become a vegetarian :scream: meat was becoming so repulsive to me. So, I decided to end my trial.

I added some fruit back into my diet and some arugula. I have never been a fan of arugula, but I have never tasted anything so delicious in my entire life. My body definitely wanted something that was in that arugula.

Within a few weeks of adding in the fruit and arugula, my violent reaction to beef was gone. Histamine intolerance greatly improved. My theory is as follows: we make an enzyme called diamine oxidase (DAO) to breakdown histamine. Vitamin C is an important component of DAO. I think I needed the vitamin C to create the diamine oxidase. Also, adding in the little bit of fruit and greens improved the consistency of my bowel movements.

So, is there something I could have done differently for my carnivore trial to have been more successful. I’m sure the answer is yes. I was still drinking Diet Coke at the time. I think Diet Coke contributed to electrolyte trouble, but I have been Diet Coke free for ten months, and I still have electrolyte trouble. Could I have eaten more organ meat to get the nutrients I needed from animal foods instead of fruit? Theoretically yes, but I tried, and really did NOT like the taste. I tried kidney for the DAO… but just couldn’t get past the smell… well, or the taste.

So, now I am carnivore adjacent. I eat mostly meat, but I have a serving or two a day of fruit or veggie, and my body is happy. Although, I do STILL have a hard time with electrolytes.

I think that’s about it. My trial was almost two years ago at this point, so these are the problems that really stood out for me. I did document my trial in our carnivore threads. I thought it was important for people to know that it doesn’t always go smoothly.

#72

I dont think it wise to force feed yourself any pre determined amount of animal protein daily. Just eat an amount till you’re satisified, If it’s keto you can have your low carb salads and veggies. I dont know what others think on this.

#73

@VirginiaEdie, fab post and so clear on what suits you and finding your way :slight_smile: I truly liked reading that VE, ALL about you and your journey!!

@trucha
zc/carnivore never ever says eat 2 lbs or 1.5 lbs ever as in some ‘rule’ but it becomes a real guideline for most of us…in that is WHERE most people do fall into their journey but one thing is 2 lbs of beef gives ALL the nutrients/electrolytes etc as in completing a human bodies needs. So most zc people fall into that 2 lb or 1.5 lb area easily cause most humans ‘fall there’ as they change thru the lifestyle but many eat 3-4 lbs and thrive, some eat less ‘super depending on WHO they are truly’ so that ‘forced to eat 2 lbs is not ever that, it is never that ever’

zc is eat ALL you need. what suits you. what works for you and what your body wants…but that 2 lbs is KEY being that ‘most of us’ fall into that range and 2 lbs of meat 'gives US ALL that daily body nutrients/vitamins and minerals ya know.

so that is never set in stone but if one is somehow less than on zc best guess is they are not eating enough. but we walk phases thru how our bodies want to roll and heal/repair and more so it is never a ‘set rule’ on eating in zc ever for any of us here.

do you at all times and newer people we can help thru the changes but we never know ‘their bodies’ and prescip meds or their life ya know…that throws tons into how we gotta move forward as individuals. ZC is not a blanket statement ever of eat 2 lbs per day, never was meant that but it covers our nutrient intake for ‘optimal’ what the body needs…right after that, WHO is the individual eating the plan and what do they require ya know? very big on that for all of us as we go forward.

#74

I was wondering if in our early years (before discovering keto or carnivore) if we ate only small amounts of sweets, carbs, etc would we remain healthy. Meaning only consuming large amounts of these foods is what causes health issues diabetes, inflammation, etc.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #75

Dr. Shawn Baker eats about four pounds of meat a day, but he said at Ketofest 2019, “I’d never advise anyone to eat the way I do; I’m a freak.” And you are right; I have noticed that people on the carnivore sites very rarely give advice (except to tell newbies to eat more meat, lol!), but their experiences tend to fall in similar ranges. I think people may read this and assume that they are being told what to do, and don’t always understand that they need to figure out what works for them. For example, while most carnivores seem to eventually want to stop adding salt to their food, there is at least one carnivore on these forums who speaks of still needing a fair amount of added salt. It just depends.

(Megan) #76

Thanks for sharing your story Edith, you did dang well to keep going as long as you did. I doubt I would have kept going anywhere near as long. Personally I think the eat 2 lbs a day advice, and the “if you have any issues, eat more meat!” advice is downright wrong for some people. Glad you have found what works for you!

#77

Unless it’s way below our needs. People are able to undereat protein and fat too, it is a thing. For such people eating only when hungry and only until satiation can be a bad idea too.

We need at least adequate protein, low protein causes every kinds of problems. Some people may under- or overestimate their protein need but it’s somewhat individual too. There is a good sounding range for someone’s stats but it’s still individual.

I don’t think we all need 2 pounds of meat on carnivore at all. It would be horrible overeating (unless I eat the leanest meats I can… but it’s still unnecessarily much protein for me on most days) and plain impossible for me for example. Around 1 is perfect for most of my carnivore days but I eat other items as well. But I need high protein, it’s non-negotiable, some people have problems there and some with a strange condition even need a lowish amount.

But we need the right amount of protein and fat, no matter if we never get hungry or get satiated by 2 bites.

So it’s a bit complex but there is a thing as too low and too high protein and the right amount is usually a range with much wriggle room so we should eat whatever feels best in that range.

#78

Possibly…?
I ate a ton of sweets and as far as I could feel, I was very healthy. Surely it wasn’t the best for my body as it was elated when I showed it less and less carbs and now it complains if I eat much more for some days and with time, it’s possible problems would have emerged but at 35 years old and having good genes I felt nothing wrong (okay, everyone has minor issues, beyond that. mine weren’t even food related except my teeth but that has other factors as well).
I don’t think high-carb is a problem (for people who thrives on it), it’s choosing the right items. Vegs, starches and super sugary things aren’t the same… The human body is quite sturdy, even a typical bad diet takes a lot of time to damage it seriously. If the burden is way less, the body may be able to handle it and serious diet related problems may never appear…
But if someone is more sensitive, they should be more careful.

#79

exactly and such a proven point you made which is why we say this only:

eat all the meat/seafood fish and fowl YOU NEED and that YOU enjoy and that is affordable to your wallet and don’t look back but that is the ‘total basis’ in saying DO YOU AS you need to change thru this lifestyle as one comes on it cause NO ZC person can ever tell another that xyz fat intake or abc protein is right for them…can’t happen so that most basic of sayings hits all accords and is full truth yet so EASILY dismissed…so dismissed it is sad truly. It is the one rule to me that applies. Eat all one needs, when ya need it and don’t look back on a daily basis cause your body asks to direct you yet we ‘always won’t listen’ most times :wink: :sunny:

I say it over and over, eat all you want. all you need. eat what you desire and are craving more fat, eat it, need less fat, do that, just take your day by day FOR YOU on this plan…and now it is ‘being controlled’ as it would in this human life entire global forum as some kind of ‘thing’ when it isn’t, never was.

What we are reading in zc lifestyle now is no diff. than any other plan.
Experiences. From 1 person and a few chime in, yes this is ME TOO and the me too experiences are directing people alot of times.

You see it in Keto Plan easily. I eat avacado and DO SO well or I eat this or that and am thriving…yet another thinks that is the holy grail when it will never suit them…too much info…basics is DO YOU at all times no matter what your eating plan is yet it truly is the HARDEST darn thing to phathom when we try to move forward reading xyz and abc fits all…it never will.

OK me on a chat tangent LOL cause I walked the zc path a long time but short time and researched it and WE ALL have issues, but if one is willing to share full truth in their personal body and thoughts one can get real adivce on how to move forward yet the ‘basics’ are so simple of any plan truly…do you and don’t read what others are doing to suit them, yes we can a bit but if not right, dump it fast and do ourselves :wink:

bob and weave. entire life on this planet has to be this. there is no set in stone for any eating plan for any of us. We must find our path as it is driven thru real body experiences…that is what took me to zc and that is what I found as my healing but I also realized one thing on it…just eat the meat/seafood fish and fowl you are drawn to daily and never give it another thought. BUT THAT is ME ya know, I flourish here and another might have brain games of dieting and restriction and med issues that works against them but in the end, keep on trying all, what the hell else do we have ever?

#80

Takes years of abusive diet for things to go bad in a healthy body. So all your bad eating habits (and mine) did not have its effect till years later.

I’d really like to know if anybody here feels that eating a small amount of the wrong food, say a slice of ice cream cake on their birthday or an apple once a week, or a small piece dark chocolate can cause harmful effects in every one of us.

Could a couple of grape tomatoes and a piece of green pepper in a salad daily cause inflammation and calcium tendonitis in my shoulder?