Nightshades and Inflammation

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #81

Yes, they can, but whether or not they will or not probably depends on your degree of insulin-resistance. The corporate physician at E. I. du Pont de Nemours got a number of executives and blue-collar workers to lose quite a bit of fat on a low-carbohydrate diet during the 1950’s and 1960’s. In one of the case studies he wrote up, the executive in question got quite a bit thinner on the (essentially keto) diet, but would start to regain fat if he ate so much as a single apple above his carb limit.

Newly sober alcoholics often ask whether a shot of whisky or a glass of beer once a week would be harmful, and the answer has to be that if one is an addict, even such a small amount—while probably not harmful in and of itself—will inevitably lead to consuming more and more, till the person is right back in the trouble they are trying to get out of.

That said, only you can know whether such things will harm you. Try it and see. If you can manage that way, well and good, but if you find yourself back in a place of obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, gout, hypertension, etc., then you probably need to stick to the keto plan as advised. The only way to know is to try.

(Edith) #82

Yes, I understand it is not wise to force feed myself. As you know, from your own keto journey and joining this forum, we learn from those who are more experienced. We eventually figure out what works for us, but it takes some trial and error.

#83

Keto plan doesnt eliminate grapes or peppers or even sweets if the daily carbs are under 20 grams, correct? I understand it could tempt someone to overdo that 20 gram per day limit. But in my case I dont have a weight problem just a painful shoulder and a 7.2 a1c at last count.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #84

Sugar (meaning table sugar, sucrose) has a double whammy, being a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose molecule. So not only do you have to deal with the glucose, but there is the effect of the fructose on the liver to reckon with. But if your daily allowance of carbohydrate consisted of 20 g of sucrose, you could probably stay in ketosis. But would you really want to eat that way? Just sugar and meat, I mean?

Grapes, for example, are pretty much just sugar water in a skin, so it wouldn’t take very many to reach 20 g of sugar. For example, 124 g of green grapes, or 100 g of red grapes. That’s not very many of either.

In any case, give it a try, and see if it works for you.

#85

Probably best not to tempt myself on keto with sweets at all.

#86

Add some eggs and it starts to sound something easy for me to do (not all the time but often) and the best I can do in my fruit seasons… But I have no problem with some dairy here and there either.
It’s not my target at all but I have my limits.

124g grapes is sugar poisoning level to me :smiley: (My record is feeling bad due to the sugar after maybe 20g but now I know that I just need some fatty protein afterwards and not always. The carbiness of my previous days matter.) I prefer 10-20g myself but of course sometimes I go higher, I am a HUGE fruit lover, after all and my current grape in season is just the best. Super tasty though a tad too sweet but I can handle a few small balls :slight_smile: And I can go for the less ripe ones too. Though that isn’t perfect, sadly ripening doesn’t only make the fruit sweeter (often nearly inedibly sweet to me), it affect other parts of the taste (and in the case of Williams pear, juiciness and that is one of the selling points of my favorite pear).

Quince season comes soon, that is a sweet fruit too but not THAT sweet… (And we rarely eat it raw though it’s possible.) I will probably mostly skip the medlar season, I wasn’t much interested last year either.

My major fruit is lemon now. Too bad I have no lemon trees but it’s Hungary and I don’t bother with inside fruit trees.

Erm, sorry but it was about FRUITS :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

It may be a good idea, it is for many. Of course, it’s individual, I needed my sweets several times on keto, they helped me out in some situations. But they should be like that, using them as the best option, not just eating them willy-nilly. If you can enjoy your keto without sweet things, wonderful. I always tell people that if it’s easy without sweet things, it’s probably to best idea to do it. But they may come handy, at least for some of us. But even for people like me, they can cause problems when used incorrectly. I have a good instinct not to start with sweet things, I almost never want them when hungry, I want some fatty protein (first). I already had this on my high-carb diet with sweets in nearly every meal. And the less carbs my meal has, the less I want a sweet dessert (or any, actually). Sweet things easily make one want to consume more sweet things especially if we aren’t satiated yet but if they are carby too, they may even lower the satiation, I have that. Not like I couldn’t eat a ton of sweets after very well satiated. Or hopefully it’s past tense already, I won’t test it :slight_smile:

#87

For me it’s the same as you. After a full fatty keto meal I may want something sweet to top it off. Ive always been like that. In the past sometimes I gouged myself on chocolate or cake. But the urge has diminished since I’m on the keto diet. And i doubt I would have more than a piece of something sweet. But why go there at all.

#88

yea I get ya on that. I think it is also a ‘habit’ we need to break. we all ‘desire and want’ ya know plus all those decades of doing xyz habit is just engrained in us. We all have predictable habits we all need to address.

for me I always just ate bacon…bacon was the ‘cover for any and all cravings or habits I wanted to break’—now that is what worked so well.

key being I now desire sardines after a meal IF the body wants something, I dont know how sardines became like dessert in my life but they did LOL

#89

I always loved sardines in olive oil with sliced onion on toasted pita bread. Now minus the pita bread, Always a great lunch

#90

if you are keto you could do keto pita maybe :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#91

Whats keto pita? It almost rhymes lol

#92

Grapes v grape tomatoes. I think there are many people who can stay in ketosis eating a few grape tomatoes. Grapes, not so much. I also do not see anything wrong with eating a couple of mini peppers or a tomato and have always eaten them throughout my years on Keto but I do not worry much about being in ketosis. Of course I realize this does not address the nightshade issue. For that as others have said, cut it out for a month and see what happens. A week is not enough time.

As for the carbs, I can have a slice or two of apple but it is usually when I am craving it, not more than that. Not sure why the craving, it happens rarely I would never put ice cream cake in the same category as an apple. One is a natural single ingredient food with fiber binding the fructose and the other was made in a factory and has chemicals and added sugar. Also if it is regular cake it has wheat which can be a huge inflammatory trigger for people. My back goes stiff whenever I have large amounts of wheat but I have a child with Celiac which has genetic elements so I am probably sensitive to it even if I test negative for Celiac (but oh the heartburn if I have a large amount of wheat!) The real problem with any sugar containing food for me is whether it triggers a craving. A tomato does not, for me a grape usually does not either but cake may and real pizza definitely does.

I do get cravings at night for carby or sweet thing, not eggs or meat. I also naturally love carby foods, I used to say if stuck on an island my food of choice would be Sicilian pizza I could eat that all day everyday but my weight would be out of control, as would the heartburn. I have personally always disliked meat. As a child it had to be doctored up in some way for me to eat it, Schnitzel, or hamburgers with veggies mixed in. Now I do like a well prepared steak but eating it for every meal, with all due respect to the carnivores, I think I would rather fast! That is what is most interesting, when fasting I have no problems with cravings and have no overwhelming need to eat at 11pm but if eating regular keto, I do! I used to have the Keto Connect mug muffin if really desperate or sugar free chocolate of some kind. Possibly berries with homemade cream with powdered erythritol

My first year on Keto (which was my most successful) I did not intentionally deviate from “lazy keto” and fasting for the first 6 months. Once or twice I was able to take one bite of a treat at a party or special event (I promise it was one bite!) and not feel compelled to have more (not that I would have allowed it). Then I had a weekend cheat because someone on here recommended that it would be good for my weight loss stall (it was not!) I was able to get back on after the weekend without any major problems. Except that it meant that I could get away with “cheating” so I did it again a month later and a month after that and pretty soon I was slowly regaining.

Interesting question on if we had eaten better 20 years ago would we be more insulin sensitive? I know many people who eat well, were never heavy, but have a genetic predisposition to T2. They got T2 although eating low carb has helped someone I know. I am not sure anything would have prevented it from developing especially as this is an older person. His aunt ate the 1960s equivalent of a whole food diet and still got diabetes despite being active.

I definitely abused sugar and carbs and perhaps if I had not I would be better off now or at least occasionally able to indulge but I cannot. I used to eat a whole food slow carb diet and while I liked it I was tempted to cheat, now I wish I could do that and still lose weight but I cannot I now see movies or read books and dinner is pasta and bread and I am shocked that many people can eat like that or drink lemonade or cola and have no problems. However, for most people I think avoiding sugar or at least being conscious of how much you consume when you are young and healthy can help delay or prevent it.

#93

I had that with not quite keto but big fatty protein rich meals on high-carb. Even on low-carb. I needed much sweets on keto for various reasons but yeah, I probably felt like eating some even then.
Carbs did that to me, not just my decades long habit.
It is very different on/near carnivore. If I am not bored of my simple, proper, savory staples, I just eat a decent sized meal and that’s it. Maybe I drink an egg milk of coffee, no sweetness at all. But some dairy as dessert happens too for various reasons. Not all the time than before though.
I have thought it’s a super long, super tough habit I would need a ton of time to break. Well, no, it’s all about choosing the right food to eat in my case. Maybe I still fancy something here and there but it’s somewhat rare and it doesn’t need to be sweet at all. Sweet is overrated :smiley:

But I am a veteran low-carber at this point, I wasn’t like this in the beginning or in the middle… But I ate plenty of carbs too, even on my original keto so no wonder…

And if I eat something sweet, it may increase the desire instead of sending it away… It’s tricky. Even if I eat some sweets, it must be some satiating, satisfying protein rich fatty thing, that messes with me the least Oh yes, near zero plant net carbs is advisable too. For me, I mean. I am fully aware lots of plant carbs doesn’t mess with all ketoers… Sweeteners don’t seem to matter to me but who knows?

Not a bad idea but for me it was something like a pickle before my carnivore trials… I LOVE sour things, even more than sweets and I always had a very huge sweet tooth (it diminished in the last years). But sour things? Wonderful. Some nice fatty meat can be lovely as well. Sweets just don’t have that level of joy - they may be nice here and there though. But if one stops and thinks it over and replace the sweets with some similarly tempting, better food item, it may help. Not always if one is like me but often.