Night Cramps - Compression, Another Approach

amwassil · 2019-10-29 22:16:15 UTC

Night muscle cramps, predominantly in the feet, ankles and calves, have been discussed elsewhere primarily in terms of electrolyte balance. Search the forum for ‘night cramps’.

I have suffered these cramps for years (I am currently 74 years old), predating my adoption of keto many years. This is not a specifically keto problem, as some seem to think. In the last year or so, I have been experimenting with an electrolyte mixture of sodium, potassium and magnesium in the attempt to get an electrolyte mix that might help. My current mix consists of 50 grams of Real Salt (sodium), 40 grams of No Salt (potassium) and 10 grams of Epsom Salt (magnesium). This makes a 10-day supply at 10 grams per day. On work days (4-5 days per week) I also consume 7-8 grams of sodium chloride table salt dissolved in a liter of water during my shift.

All this has improved my condition immensely. I no longer get cramps every day and the severity has lessened markedly. When I feel a cramp starting I can stop it almost immediately by stretching the affected leg or foot. In the past I could not do this. Once it started I had to endure the pain however long it took to run its course, which could be 5, 10 or even 15 minutes.

A week or so ago I decided to try to augment the electrolytes by wearing compression socks while sleeping. My rationale was that maybe part of the problem is circulation and maybe compression socks would help. After a bit of online research I discovered that compression socks rated at 15-20 mmHg and higher are designed for walking and standing, where the effects of gravity are a concern. In the horizontal where gravity is not involved, sub-15 mmHg are sufficient. There is also some concern that the higher compression socks might restrict blood flow too much when used in the horizontal.

Since I’m on my feet most of my work shifts, the arches in my feet get very tired and sometimes even painful. I’ve added arch support insoles to my shoes which has helped greatly. In addition, I’ve started soaking my feet in epsom salts dissolved in warm water for half an hour most nights. I thought it might help even more to wear arch support while sleeping as well. So I started wearing these.

Since I started using my 25mmHg compression socks and Tensor arch supports I have not had a night cramp, except this morning in the top of my left foot. I suspect this cramp was caused by adjusting the arch support too tight. I will report on my results with this experiment periodically until either I am convinced of its efficacy or not. Stay tuned.

Fangs · 2019-10-30 09:26:37 UTC

wonderful report from your post.

luckily I rarely suffer from a cramp. Never did. Never had to correct them but I am sure your info is gonna help someone out there.

cooked · 2019-10-30 13:00:56 UTC

After a year on Keto my cramps of many years (touch wood) eventually disappeared. I used to get them if I drank ONE small beer. A few days ago I let the pigs out and drank too much beer by any measure and… no cramps. I do take magnesium + salt, but I have no idea what causes cramps, maybe they will come back some day, which might help me work out why they happen.

CFLBob · 2019-10-30 13:15:22 UTC

Do you get cramps only while horizontal (sleeping, I assume) or while standing? Do you feel it’s one compression or the other, or the combination?

I get very oddly specific cramps, if I get them at all, only while sleeping and then only in the last hour or two of sleep. By oddly specific, I mean only my right lower leg; two toes (if big toe is 1, it’s toes 3 and 4) and if anything else, only the muscles on the front on the right side of that right lower leg. The muscles that raise the foot.

My fix has been electrolytes, and it seems to be potassium is most important.

My wife used to get awful, middle-of-the-night, thigh cramps, but those were thyroid-related.

Hap · 2019-10-30 13:31:26 UTC

It’s not always known what actually causes cramps. If it was simply electrolytes then why don’t we get cramps all over our body? I was getting cramps every night when I had kidney cancer. When they removed the kidney all the cramping stopped miraculously. I did not increase my electrolytes at all. Now that I’m backpacking I get them once in a while in my tent and sometimes a week after I get home for a night or two. If I feel them coming on in my tent I pour a little salt in my hand and toss it back and wash it down with a little water and they stop almost immediately so I wonder if waiting till you start to feel them before taking your extra dose of salt mix will help???

Fangs · 2019-10-30 14:39:05 UTC

Happy to hear a great report for you! I am knocking wood all stays fine with you

amwassil · 2019-10-31 06:41:05 UTC

@CFLBob I get probably 90% of the cramps while horizontal. Mostly just after awaking and/or swinging my legs to get out of bed. These are all in my legs and feet. I get an occasional cramp in my midriff just below my lowest right rib while pulling on my socks in a seated position. I sometimes get a cramp under that same rib but farther around under my right arm when standing at work and raising both arms to stretch and twist. I do that very carefully now! Whenever I get that one, I have to allow it to run its course. No way to stop it yet.

Aside from the cramp in the top of my left foot yesterday morning reported in the OP, which I attributed to adjusting my Tensor arch support too tightly, no further cramps today. Also, today being Wednesday, the wife and I went to our local rec center for her weekly swim lesson. I use the hot tub whirlpool there for a 20 minute massage of both lower legs and feet, especially my arches. This instead of my nightly foot soak.

Another interesting phenomenon since I started wearing the compression socks and arch supports. Virtually every morning so far, when I flex one or the other knee in order to get a grip on either the sock or the arch support to remove them, I get a little ‘ping’ in the inside upper corner just above the knee of the flexed leg. When I feel this I immediately straighten the leg and stretch it out as much as I can. So far that movement has prevented the cramps from starting. When I do get cramps anywhere in my thighs, they are very painful and very difficult to relax and stretch out. I wonder if that nascent cramp might be caused by too much compressioin, so I’ll probably buy a pair of 15 mmHg to see if that makes any difference.

amwassil · 2019-11-06 18:31:26 UTC

First morning since sleeping with compression stockings I got a real cramp in my left calf. On a scale of 1-10 the pain was about 5-6, so not a ‘biggie’. I was not able just to ‘stretch it out’. It lasted a little less than 5 minutes, but I had to get out of bed and walk it off. That did not get rid of it completely either, but after lying down again and just relaxing it finally petered out.

Best I can figure is that I haven’t consumed my full quota of electrolytes the past couple of days due mostly to my irregular work schedule which interrupted my eating. That reduced intake of my electrolyte mix. Also, I haven’t drunk my full liter of water with sodium at work for the past couple of days.

amwassil · 2020-01-12 22:33:38 UTC

I want to update my self experimenting so far.

Compression while sleeping does not appear to affect the morning cramp at all. I’ve had cramps with and without. In fact, a couple times when I had my arch supports too tight I got cramps on the tops of my feet! So I think we can pass on that idea. May or may not be useful for other purposes.

What I’ve found so far:

When I consume my full daily quota of electrolyte mix of sodium/potassium/magnesium salts AND my daily intake of water with dissolved sodium - no cramps!
When I consume my full daily quota of electrolyte mix of sodium/potassium/magnesium salts BUT NOT my daily intake of water with dissolved sodium - some cramps, on the mornings after missing the salt water.
When I miss my daily quota of electrolyte mix of sodium/potassium/magnesium salts BUT STILL get my daily intake of water with dissolved sodium - no cramps!

This morning, for example, I have not had my electrolyte mix for about 10 days, I have substituted Himalayan salt for some of it, but not my usual daily quota. This morning a cramp started in my left ankle but I was able to stop it by stretching the foot for a few seconds. The last full cramp was several days ago after a day off when I did not drink my quota of salt water. I am also off today and am likely not to drink all my salt water, so I think I am at higher risk of a cramp (or incipient cramp) tomorrow morning.

So it seems to me that keeping the sodium up consistently is more important than keeping up the other electrolytes. Maybe potassium and magnesium only need to be replenished occasionally. Once a week, every 10 days…?

amwassil · 2021-05-23 20:27:14 UTC

amwassil · 2021-05-24 05:22:35 UTC

May 23, 2021

I noted elsewhere (don’t recall exactly where but in one of the several night cramp topics) that my cramps seem to have migrated out of my feet, ankles and calves to my thighs primarily. I now only very seldom get even the hint of a cramp below my knees. In fact, I had one start in the top of my right foot this morning which was only slightly painful but persistent and required me to get out of bed to walk it off. Lasted only about 5 minutes. Memorable only because it’s been so long since the last foot cramp.

I’ve been wearing compression socks daily for more than a year now to help relieve/fix varicose veins in my ankles. As noted in the OP when wearing these during sleep they did not seem to have any effect on frequency of cramps. But wearing them all day every day seems to have a very beneficial effect.

On the premise that they might help eliminate or reduce the cramps I now experience in my thighs I’ve ordered a pair of the following full length compression sleeves:

ctviggen · 2021-05-24 15:26:47 UTC

This guy solves his by eating mustard packets:

https://twitter.com/screenack/status/1393556397304991752?s=03

I think it’s similar to drinking pickle juice.

amwassil · 2021-05-24 16:35:20 UTC

I eat mustard pretty much every day and haven’t noticed any effect from it. I’m currently applying Absorbine Jr. to the insides of my thighs. The right to help reduce the pain; the left to help prevent a recurrance. I also bought both water-based and oil-based magnesium sprays. I apply one or the other each night upon retiring.

ctviggen · 2021-05-24 16:18:35 UTC

Well, I use Magnesium oil, but it’s really just to add some magnesium without a pill. I also don’t have your level of cramps, so I can really be a gauge for you, obviously. You’re in a different league.

amwassil · 2021-05-24 16:48:57 UTC

A League of My Own!

amwassil · 2021-05-27 15:53:06 UTC

This is of interest:

I must stand on shifts at Walmart. This is generally 2 hours between breaks and sometimes more. As noted, wearing support compression socks has helped my lower leg cramps enormously. So I am in hopes that the full length compression leg sleeves I noted above will be helpful for my thighs. Amazon notified me that I can expect arrival Tuesday (Jun 01).

amwassil · 2021-06-01 00:57:06 UTC

The full-length leg compression sleeves arrived Thursday. I wore them to work on both Friday and Saturday. Wore them all day yesterday and am wearing them today. First impression is that they are very tight and feel very supportive. They stay in place well. My inner right thigh causes much less pain with them on. So overall first impression is good. Anyone who has worn knee-high compression socks understands how difficult it is to get those on. These things are more than twice as difficult! I’m thinking a combo of thigh only compression sleeves and separate knee-high compression socks may be more practicable for daily wear.

Note: the grey ‘socks’ on my feet are Cambivo plantar fasciitis socks with ankle sleeve. I also have a couple pairs of Cambivo compression ankle brace sleeves.

amwassil · 2021-06-07 20:14:37 UTC

Follow up

June 07, 2021: 3 weeks past this major cramp episode. My right thigh is still sore so I continue to wear either the full-length sleeves or the cycling stretch stockings I mentioned here on my right leg. The right thigh pain is slowly lessening. Still using Absorbine Jr. and X3 Freeze on both inner thighs. Still taking my electrolytes.

No cramps since May 17. Although I’ve had about 3 incipient cramps, 2 in the tops of my feet for the first times in a very long time! I was able to stretch them out without having to get out of bed. I had one cramp start in my right thigh, but fortunately it dissipated quickly without causing any pain. Overall, my legs feel better with the support than without it.

My plan is to wean off the potassium and magnesium supplements as the tables run out and see what happens.

Backspin · 2021-06-07 21:50:28 UTC

Muscle cramps are such peculiar things. I used to get them mostly in the calves. Now I get them mainly in the feet. And they can happen while I’m standing up. The sensation isn’t so much cramping as it is just painful locking up, but I’m sure it is actually muscle cramps- just that the foot muscles are smaller. They are pretty debilitating when they are going on.

Like others here, keeping up on electrolytes seems to help

amwassil · 2021-06-23 11:40:54 UTC

Jun 23/21 Moving my quasi-log of ramp episodes from here to here.