Nicotine aids lipolysis. What to do when you quit nicotine?

health
(Mark Rhodes) #41

Update: @Nimitta After a week of reading all about the interplay between choline and acetyl-carnitine and lipolysis I am going to give it a 30 day go. With the normal 5 day fasts I do along with feasts- meaning I will do my best to not change anything, I will consider a 2 pound scale loss as a victory.

#42

Yeah, I used to drink tons of Mio water flavoring. I mean like I’d use a bottle about every other day. I stalled for a couple of weeks and then read that Ace-K (acefultame potassium) can spike insulin. I severely restricted my Mio and started losing again the next week. Could be coincidence of course but like you said, taken to the extreme I’m sure it’s not good for you either way!

#43

Which are you supplementing and in what form? I have acetyl-L-carnitine and thought that it was really helping with energy but found that it also started giving me insomnia (at least I think I’ve narrowed it down as the culprit). I’ll be interested in your results!

(Donna) #44

Wow…fully understanding your concern about Ace-K…I just read a paper (hélas…cannot find it at the moment) mentioning the fact that Ace-K can really do a ‘number’ on the gut biome…I’m staying away from it as well…as I figure better safe than sorry! It helps to not have the ‘trigger’ of sweet taste of any ilk in my person!! Have a great weekend Mr. Jones!!

(Mark Rhodes) #45

Bulk Supplements is my preferred brand.

#46

Ha! Me too! Off Amazon, right? I’ve used them for L-Theanine, the Acetyl-L-Carnatine, and creatine. They are definitely the best value.

#47

Here’s the article I was referring to:

" The problem with acesulfame potassium is that there are a number of studies revealing it significantly increases insulin response without raising blood sugar . This is exactly what one is trying to avoid to lose weight. Studies show that the insulin response is as remarkable as if a person ingested an equivalent amount of glucose (Horm Metab Res. 1987 Jun; 19(6):233-8.). It appears that acesulfame potassium works directly on the pancreas to stimulate insulin release (Horm Metab Res. 1987 Jul; 19(7):285-9)."

(Jane) #48

I still like a little flavoring in my ketoaid so I found this today after reading your posts about Ace-K.

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Only Stevia (which may or may not be as bad) so I am going to try it out. All the others had Ace-K in them. Mio, Kool Ade, etc.

#49

Yes! That’s exactly what I switched to.I like the strawberry watermelon the best. I was disappointed in the pineapple-something-something because I LOVE the Dasani Drops (also has Ace-K) pineapple-coconut flavor. I still splurge on the “Orange Vanilla” Mio sometimes though because it is just too delicious. But other than Splurge and one specific flavor of a Food Lion generic version of mio, they ALL have Ace-K.

I personally have no problems with Stevia. 4.5 months and 45lbs almost 50lbs down!

I’m sure with a more concerted effort I could make myself drink plain water…but man, it would be tough. I also like some of the “True Lemon” varities but you have to be super careful. They are the powdered packets and some have <1g carb and some have 3g of cane sugar. I use a half packet in a 40oz bottle. Just enough to give it some tart flavor. So it’s less than half of a half of a gram.

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(Running from stupidity) #50

Both of these things are true. #voiceofexperience

Now, it’s all I drink apart from my ketoaide, which I need to drink more of currently. I keep falling back to just drinking water.

(Tommy) #51

Nicotine is a well-known appetite suppressant. You may need to check your calorie consumption for a little while with a site like Cronometer and see where you are sneaking in calories.

If you are not doing intermittent fasting already (1 meal per day), that will probably solve your problem.

This will allow you to lower your insulin even further so your body can burn off more of its fat stores.

(Mark Rhodes) #52

Thank you for the thoughts. I fast usually for 5 days at a stretch. The issue is that my insulin sensitivity was in some part generated by nicotine and as such needs the same amount of time if not more to heal as when I first started keto 23 months ago. In other words if I had not been using nicotine when I started I would have started from a far worse position in health and wellness. The IF and EF in three months time have hardly brought my blood sugars back into the range I had established over the previous year and that had been my normal baseline.
Yes I may have to adjust overall calorie consumption however I did not climb at all and I have always tracked everything. I am an engineer and I can’t help but track which is really good since I have data that I can see exactly what is happening. Yes nicotine does have an effect on leptin which is an appetite hormone but this is a minor effect when compared to the level of insulin sensitivity it creates. Dropping my calories and more would likely have a detrimental effect on my lean body composition. I strive for heavy musculature.

I have started a seperate thread concerning the choline. It seems us keto people and smokers especially have depleted ourselves of this. In 30 days I will see how helpful choline supplementation is to nicotine withdrawal.

Seem to be stuck
(Windmill Tilter) #53

This is a really interesting thread. I gave up smoking and moved to the 4mg “mini-lozenges”. I’ve been debating when to drop those too, and have been doing a bit of research. I was very surprised to see that nicotine not only elevates RMR by itself (resting metabolic rate), but that when used in conjunction with caffeine, the RMR elevation can be as high as 10% depending on the dose. That’s a huge difference! So basically, not only does nicotine facilitate lypolysis, it increases the total metabolism, and just for good measure, it suppresses appetite.

It’s little wonder that people gain weight when they quit!

Here is the link to the journal article:

(Bunny) #56

Commenting on an older question posted:

Surprisingly it is astounding that people who are genetically or hereditarily predisposed to be addicted nicotine live longer than their counterparts if they quit?

They have longevity in their genes and I am one of those peeps!

(Mark Rhodes) #57

29 years alcohol free…so I understand a thing or two about addiction. :wink:

(Mark Rhodes) #58

I should note that January so my BG go back to my formal normal. This allowed for my first extended fast of 5 days in 6 months. Overall I gained 20 pounds of fat along with 9 pounds lean per dexascan.

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here you can see how my pre fast numbers were, then my fast followed by a week of carnivore.

As of now I am still 4 pounds down from January 1st. As I lift heavy and am trying to not lose muscle I’m positive this is all fat loss. I’ll know for sure come March, my next dexascan

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(Donna) #59

Kindred soul!..Thank you for this informative article…Does this research also apply to nicotine ‘mini-mints’/lozenges?!..I’ve heard horrible thinks about acésulfame potassique…(AK?)…the artificial sweetener…for increasing insulin levels?! I have been addicted to the 4mg nicotine mints.for years (taking around 10 per day…and am fearful they may be (or will be potentially) harming my metabolism? I feel they do give me a ‘boost’…but perhaps this is just imagined on my part? I do think I take them for energy and to avoid emotional eating…I imagine that they ‘up’ my metabolism… I don’t lose weight as easily at 58 as I did in my late forties/early 50’s…Do you feel a need or desire to halt the use of the 4mg mini-mints? I’d appreciate ANY feedback! So, so worried and frustrated!

(Windmill Tilter) #60

From the bodies perspective, nicotine is nicotine. What I learned from the article was that 4mg pills that I take are simply too big. I was also surprised to learn that nicotine induces insulin resistance, which is the exact opposite of what I want to do. The study’s authors noted that they chose the low doses of 1mg and 2mg of nicotine to moderate the effects on insulin resistance. The good news is that 1mg was enough to create a therapeutic effect, and that increasing the dose didn’t do much.

In conclusion, we found that 1 mg nicotine has a pronounced thermogenic effect, which is increased by ≈100% when it is combined with 100 mg caffeine. Increasing the nicotine dose from 1 to 2 mg did not increase the thermogenic effect but produced side effects in most subjects.

Knowing that nicotine induces insulin resistance makes me want to get it out of my system altogether. In the short term, I’ve started cutting my 4mg pills in half and putting them in a 7 day pill sorter so that I take no more than 6 half-pills a day. That’s cutting down on my pill consumption dramatically, and I can’t really tell the difference from a cravings perspective. I’ve also started drinking small cups of coffee more often. If I’m going to be quitting nicotine slowly over the course of a few months, I might as well be getting the metabolic benefits. For the same reason, I have a cup of coffee and a half pill before working out as well; Perkins Et. Al found that excercise actually doubled the thermogenic effect of nicotine. :slight_smile:

(Mark Rhodes) #61

Donna,

Every keto person I know who smokes, chews, vapes or uses nicotine seems to benefit from great insulin sensitivity. They also seem to gain weight rapidly by changing the manner of nicotine ingestion. One 45 year old female I know switched from smoking to vaping and gained 20 pounds of fat rather abruptly. My suspicion then is delivery does matter and my understanding is that nicotine will create a problem for cardiovascular issues.However you should really Google whether or not nicotine is harmful to your goals.

I am not sure I am passed the difficult part. True I have not chewed tobacco or smoked for 6 months. It is only recently that I have been able to get my blood sugars down to pre-quitting levels suggesting I am once again less hyperinsulinemic. I do know that I was able to leverage some of that weight gain into LBM whether that was just extra water retention( figuring that every glycogen molecule binds with 3 water molecules) and I have really increased my weight lifting.

(Windmill Tilter) #62

Every keto person I know who smokes, chews, vapes or uses nicotine seems to benefit from great insulin sensitivity. They also seem to gain weight rapidly by changing the manner of nicotine ingestion. One 45 year old female I know switched from smoking to vaping and gained 20 pounds of fat rather abruptly. My suspicion then is delivery does matter…

This is really interesting, I assumed that delivery method of nicotine did not matter, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Personally, I found switching to the pills to be pretty seamless after 20 years of smoking, but n=1 doesn’t mean much.