hi, a while ago I saw a video on the benefits of a carnivore diet. Since then I’ve watched more than a dozen uTube videos on the carnivore diet. As a former life-long vegetarian I can say this is all very new to me. So I started 5 days ago - nothing but steak, hamburger and eggs fried in butter with salt.
-1- First question - is the Keto and Carnivore diet the same?
First two days I craved sugar and carbs, but not any more. But now my lower legs and feet are swelling up like never before.
-2- Is that now from too much salt?
So I started searching videos on swelling ankles and feet. Watched a video by Dr. Berg stating basically to prevent swelling I need 420 mg of magnesium, 4700 mg of potassium and vitamin B1, but he did not say how much. Found what I thought was his facebook page with his videos, I sent him a message there asking if he could recommend a supplement and he replied yes. He stated he was the producer for Dr. Berg and could supply it for $5. Too good to be true considering the same thing was selling for $35 to $45 on eBay. 116127268434 is the ebay item number of the type of supplement I’m talking about. (don’t know if nubies can post links). But I would need 4 servings to equal the amount he said I needed in his video.
-3- Do I take it in the morning like a vitamin pill or at meals?
-4- Has anyone else ever experienced this swelling side effect and if so, what did you do about it? And how long did it last?
-5- Are there legit web sites where I can buy this supplement or the magnesium potassium and B1 vitamin separately? And / or where I can buy quality pink Himalayan salt?
I’ve watched so many videos and just feel so lost now. Any help or direction would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Newbie Overwhelmed - lots of questions
@SteveX Greetings, and welcome to the forum. Hearty congratulations on having started down this path to better health!
Yes, much of what’s discussed around here (and elsewhere) in connection with carb-restriction can feel at bit overwhelming at first. Actually there’s a lot LESS to it than first meets the eye - so hang in there and take your time getting up the learning curve.
I’m going to skimp on specific advice and leave that for others here. Without additional details about your current health situation (including possible blood pressure issues?) I don’t feel qualified to confidently offer useful and safe guidance given what you’ve described.
[Suffice it to say that buying salt and related supplements from folks touting their keto benefits on the internet is an easy way to overspend on widely available, simple, cheap electrolytes.]
If your blood pressure and heart rate are remaining in relatively safe zones, then I wouldn’t be overly concerned about transitory edema as your body more fully adjusts. Meanwhile, it is something to monitor - and yes, some electrolyte adjustments are likely going to help.
Wishing you an easy transition period and best health around the corner! 
Thank you for the reply. A year ago I had an accident and blew out my two knees. Had one replaced with metal a couple months ago. In the hospital and in rehab they were constantly taking my blood pressure etc. I have a normal heart, blood pressure, and normal health except some overweight - 220 lbs and 5’7". But that amount of overweight has been with me my whole life. And for many years I was a strict vegetarian.
But to save my knees (and hopefully not have to have the other one replaced) I decided to look at other alternatives. First video I found was someone claiming to eat nothing but meat the past 21 years, and claims he lost massive amounts of weight and he is now in excellent shape.
I started searching the internet and I started finding a lot of videos with people claiming a zero carb and zero sugar diet was the best thing they ever did for their health.
I’ve been healthy all my life, except I did have my gullbladder removed many years ago and that improved my life in many ways. But now this swelling of my ankles and feet has me worried. Never had that before.
In one of the videos by Dr. Berg he talks about how the gullbladder is necessary for this carnivore diet. Because I don’t have one, does that mean I’m destined to fail this diet? And that’s why my feet are swelling? Some videos state feet swell because of too much salt. Should I not salt my meat anymore? I just feel so confused. Everything is just opposite my previous vegetarian lifestyle.
Hello @SteveX and welcome.
There is another thread on here titled what gurus do you follow.
That might help you to seek out more than one “expert” for guidance in addition to Dr. Berg.
I am a keto eater and so can not offer much for carnivore.
Good luck…
Steve
I have been carni for the last 2.5 years. My answers to your questions:
- Carnivore is a style of keto diet, but a keto diet is not necessarily a carnivore diet. Carnivore is normally defined as eating just animal products, and on keto you can eat plants.
- Swelling: don’t worry about this (yet). More than likely this is simply your body adjusting to your new way of eating. Give it time to settle down. BTW, don’t skimp on the salt, eat plenty of salt. You need it.
- I would recommend not eating any supplements at all: just normal table salt will do. Eat lots of fatty meat (with salt) to satiety. That’s it. As easy as that. There is nothing complicated about the carnivore diet: easiest diet you can eat.
- I personally have not experienced the swelling.
- I would not recommend taking any supplements (no need). Pink Himalayan salt should be available at your local supermarket.
My recommendation is just keep it very simple. Eat fatty meat and salt to satiety (eggs and dairy OK as well as they are animal based). Hungry? Eat a steak. Still hungry? Eat another one. Don’t go hungry. If you are hungry, eat!
Take care, best of luck, and questions always welcome!
Cheers
Alec
Welcome!
I don’t have a theory about the swelling, either.
There is also a product some people use called LMNT. It’s a drink powder with no sugar that contains sodium, potassium and magnesium.
Dr. Berg is a little cringy to me, personally I like Dr. Ken Berry for some straightforward advice.
And people without a gallbladder can definitely do a keto or carnivore diet, you might look into a bile supplement to help with fat digestion.
Hi Steve. Welcome!
I’m a believer of some supplements because for myself testing or tracking showed I was deficient in a few even after successfully being on Keto for over a year at that point. Athough I’m Keto I do primarily eat a lot of meat, and I still have some deficiencies. There are some supplements I use that I believe have allowed me to avoid some of the more common issues others experienced when starting this diet, and I’ve used them from day one.
I get woefully too little potassium (on average only 800-900mg/day). The only supplement I use by Dr Berg is his electrolytes because his formulation has 1,000mg potassium per serving, along with some salt and magnesium. I’ve used his electrolytes since I started the diet and I believe it has been key to avoiding troubles. But I don’t bother with anything else he sells.
It’s important with a low carb diet to ensure you are getting adequate daily magnesium. This can reduce muscle cramping, restless leg syndrome, and I think some swelling.
Depending on where you live you may be deficient in other things. For instance, most people living where I do in the northern Midwest of America are very deficient in Vitamin D. D3 is important to proper absorption of magnesium too, so it’s good to be taking both together. I like to use a chelated magnesium by Drs Best as well as a magnesium threonate formulation by Life Extension or NOW brands. It’s easier on the digestive system and crosses the blood-brain barrier so good for the brain. I get my magnesium off of Amazon. My D3 is by Sports Research but I believe most any brand will be sufficient.
Other than electrolytes/magnesium/D, anything else will be specific to your own needs and goals.
For B vitamins a few are important so I take a B complex myself just to be sure. Then I know I’m set with the key ones B1, B6, and B12. But I also take a daily multivitamin, and that has some B amounts in it already, so I only supplement a complex B that has moderate amounts so that the total between the two are adequate and not overkill. (Some B supplements are extremely high, like 5,000-8,000% of the daily recommended. Truly unnecessary if you take a multi and don’t have an extreme deficiency.)
I also strongly believe in a good daily dose of vitamin C, (2,000 mg) especially during these times with the various viruses floating about. A strong immune system helps.
I utilize a website called consumerlab.com whenever I am looking for the best brand and most cost effective of a particular supplement. They do testing to reveal if you are getting what is advertised and at a good price. I also utilize Puritan’s Pride for a few things because you can buy 2 get 3 free so the cost per bottle becomes the cheapest that way and they have good quality. I get my Vitamin Bs and Cs from them.
So basically for starters find a good electrolyte that you take every morning, take magnesium and D3, and choose a good multi vitamin. Maybe that will be all you need if you’re blessed.
Sometimes, too much information is not a good thing. As others here have said, it’s basically not that complicated. That can be difficult because many people feel more comfortable with a “formula” or meal plan.
My suggestion is to get your fat and protein macros (you probably have already), and keep the carbs less than 20g/day. What helped me keep the carbs low was to avoid starch and fruit of any kind and confine my vegetable consumption (romaine, brussels sprouts pretty much), to dinner. Limit your choices to clean, one ingredient foods - meat, chicken, fish, eggs, bacon, heavy cream, cheese, butter, low carb veggies, etc. Okay to combine them to create a meal or recipe, but don’t eat anything processed. Eat three meals a day, enough to where you don’t feel a need to snack in between. After a few weeks, you may find yourself naturally changing to two meals a day, just because you don’t feel you need to eat three times a day. Get a lot of salt (not hard for me because I love salt). Salt from the shaker, even used moderately, is usually way less than what is in the carbage (processed food).
Best o you!
I find this a great idea. I saw people with 3-5 meals where all meals had multiple vegs (and/or other plants). It’s not easy to keep the carbs properly low that way! Unless one is fine with super tiny amounts…
Not everyone can do this (I definitely couldn’t ditch plants on vegetarian keto for my first meal - that was usually the biggest, by far - ) but if one isn’t very attached to vegs and eat meat, it is probably doable without big problems. A lovely satiating carnivore (or close) first meal is beneficial when one plans some carbier food for the day… And some of us feels more controlled that way anyway. If I eat plants, it’s better if it doesn’t happen right away when I enter my eating window and probably many people are like this. A tiny veg probably doesn’t cause problems but more can be risky. Depends on the person, of course.
Ah welcome to your new way of life 
You’ll soon find it’s all quite simple … with a few subtleties you needn’t worry about just yet.
Keto refers to Ketosis (burning fat instead of sugar)
As in the Dr Berry Videos you’ll see varying degrees of the diet.
Carnivore - No plants
Keto - Some low carb plants
Low Carb - people who are kidding themselves.
Personally I would start on Keto but it’s up to you.
You’ve got a really exciting voyage of discovery ahead. Brilliant. Your going to feel amazing!
Thank you for your reply. I used to eat 3 plus meals a day when I was a vegetarian. But I find meat, especially steak, so filling sometimes I only eat one meal a day now. The first two days I craved carbs and sweets - wanted pepsi with a carton of ice cream or cookies or something like that. And I ate lots of salad every day. But on this diet I seldom crave anything. But once I fall asleep at night, I think I sleep deeper and longer than I ever did as a vegetarian. So hopefully on this diet I will lose pounds and permanently keep them off.
Hi, I would like to thank you for your detailed reply. As a former vegetarian I used supplements to keep me healthy for many years. So I too am a believer in supplements. But I’m sure they are not the correct supplements for a carnivore diet.
I’m going to ask you in detail questions about everything you said. Hope you don’t mind. I would like to start my carnivore diet by taking what you are taking, then cut down or cut out supplements as I find them unnecessary.
First, how many servings of Dr. Berg’s electrolytes do you take every day? My multivitamin/mineral only has 170mg of potassium as potassium guconate and citrate. I know his serving has 1000 mg of potassium but not sure if its gluconate or citrate. And what is the difference between gluconate and citrate? Which is preferred? His video says 4700 mg are needed, but elsewhere I read only one serving is recommended. Do you take 4 or 5 servings every day to reach that 4700 mg quantity?
Next is magnesium. Apparently you take Dr. Bests magnesium, but specifically which one? May I have a link please. I noticed most have included vitamin K2. My multivitamin contains magnesium 40mg as maganesium gloconate and oxide and contains vitamin K2 40 mg as menaquinone-7 - any idea what that is? I just don’t want to o.d. on vitamin K2. And what is a magnesium threonate formulation? I never heard that word before. Do you have Amazon links you can share for the Life Extension or NOW brands?
I have questions about the other supplements you take too. But this old ex-vegetarian can only absorb so many new ideas at one time.
Thank you for your help.
@SteveX welcome. I’m only new here and just want to let you know that everyone has been so supportive. It’s a great place to be.
Don’t stress too much about suppliments.
I do take stuff but only to insure I’ve got enough of the essentials. Probably no need of most of it.
You might like to consider things from my list. But again, apart from salt, may not be required.
Use your body as a guide. ‘Get cramp, up the magnesium’ etc.
Salt to taste - let your taste buds be the judge for quantity.
Magnesium - 1000mg - 2000mg
Potassium - 100mg - 200mg
Omega 3 - (EPA 1000mg and DHA 400mg)
Iodine sometimes if low on fish.
For B1, this will help you source it from your food. No need to supplement, as it is in a lot of things you’ll be eating on keto or carnivore.
Welcome to the forums and good luck going forwards.
Sorry I just saw this - was busy this weekend. But I will happily answer every question you gave me from my personal experience and understanding. I have an important appt this morning so won’t be able to answer until later today or tonight. But I wanted to leave a quick reply and let you know I wasn’t ignoring your reply to me. Talk to ya soon 
First of all, welcome to the Ketogenic Forums!
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A ketogenic diet is a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet designed to lower serum insulin levels to a point consistent with good metabolic health. A carnivore diet is a zero-carb, meat-only diet, so it is a subset of ketogenic eating. Practically speaking people distinguish the two ways of eating, and carnivores generally don’t worry about their ketone levels. (It is assumed that one is in ketosis, because the only dietary carbohydrate consumed is whatever glycogen might possibly be contained in the muscle meat one eats). Carnivore eating might include dairy and eggs or might be exclusively meat, fish, poultry; it basically means avoiding plants to the extent possible. Some carnivores drink only water, but others make an exception for coffee or tea. Ketonians allow themselves a small amount of carbohydrate, mostly in the form of leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables.
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Such swelling as you mention is more likely the result of too much carbohydrate. If you are getting too much salt, it most likely tastes bad and is giving you diarrhoea. If that is what you are experiencing, cut back. We do need a bit more salt on a low-carb diet, because higher insulin slows sodium excretion, and that returns to normal when insulin drops. If the swelling in your legs does not resolve itself pretty quickly, then see your doctor. It may be caused by some other problem and not by your keto/carnivore diet.
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I would take the supplement with meals, if he gave no other instructions.
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I never experienced that type of swelling, so can’t advise. In fact, when I went keto, it decreased my water-retention across the board. That is why I’m thinking you might want to see a doctor.
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Magnesium, potassium, and B-1 supplements are available in any drug store. Supermarkets sometimes carry them, too. Check the prices. Himalayan salt should be available in your local supermarket. Try the gourmet and health-food sections, if you don’t see it with the regular salt.
Take things easy. If it really appears the swelling is related to cutting out carbs, then try some keto-friendly vegetables and see what happens. If the swelling goes away, then keep eating that way. People can make recommendations based on what worked for them and on what we know of the science, but ultimately, there is so much variability from person to person, that we need to figure out what works best for us, and not worry about what other people are doing. We can use what they do as ideas for experimenting with, but shouldn’t assume that it’s necessarily going to work for us.
That is simply inaccurate. Bile is produced in the liver, so having our gall bladder removed does not take away our ability to digest fat. That’s basic human biology. In practical terms, however, some people with no gall bladder find they can eat fat with no problems, while others find that they need to spread out their fat intake over the day. And some people find it helpful to take bile salts with their meals. It’s completely individual.
You will find mixed opinions about Dr. Berg on these forums. I’d suggest carefully evaluating what he says, taking what sounds reasonable and dismissing the rest. You can always ask here what people think about something you think is dubious.
One thing about Dr. Berg that is indisputable is that he is not a researcher. He takes other people’s research and presents it. That is not a criticism, but it does mean that we have to evaluate what he says, and ask for his sources. The same is true of other people who are prominent on YouTube, such as Dr. Mercola, Thomas Delauer, Mike Mutzel, Dr. Ken Berry, Dr. Anthony Chaffee, Dr. Paul Mason, and so on. In my opinion, some of these people do a far better job of digesting and presenting the research than others, so their lectures need to be watched carefully.
You will notice that when actual researchers, such as David Ludwig, Stephen Phinney, Jeff Volek, and Benjamin Bikman give lectures, they always point to published research and are careful about presenting their own research before it has been peer-reviewed and published. But even they should not be automatically taken to be authoritative in their opinions.