New to this and loving it but

(Bubba) #1

Hi all, ok I’m new to this way if eating…I stumbled into it after coming off a very damaging contraceptive injection and I wouldn’t stop gaining weight, with no change to eating habits. Docs weren’t listening and I was getting depressed so after some research, this keto business appeared! Now I’ve done countless diets over the years, results were nothing to shout about.
So I’m into my second week, lost 7lbs in the first week, back pain disappeared and I’ve had zero urge to cheat with something lovely and chocolatey! So I’m over the moon…but fear is setting in and can it really be this easy, what’s the catch?!!
You all seem so knowledgeable and hard-core…so please help me cause I need some answers and advice

  1. Eating so much fat, surely this cause high cholesterol right?
  2. Do I have to exercise?
  3. I take a vit D pill and use magnesium spray oil daily but I’m guessing this isn’t enough? I also have a third of a teaspoon of low salt every day but again…I’m lacking in iron, calcium, different vitamins etc and I don’t want to fill myself with supplements?
  4. I’m slowly getting away from previous diets and need to get used to eating more calories and not feeling guily about it. Is there such a time you can have too much?
  5. Should 75-80% of my intake be fat? It bloody scares me about my heart and what I am potentially doing to it!
  6. The longer I go on the harder it is to go for a number 2. I’m doing the salt and magnesium and nothing, now I’m just uncomfortable. Any ideas what it could be?
    Thanks everyone…Im overjoyed at the quantity I can eat (coming from a life of restriction) the food I ĺove and health and the change in my shape. Something in me though is saying you’re going to have a heart attack?
(karen) #2

It should raise your HDL cholesterol, which is good. It should lower your triglycerides, which is also good. It may raise your LDL cholesterol, which would be bad except that it tends to raise the kind of LDL that’s harmless and lower the kind that’s a problem.

(Ron) #3

Start here -

(Rob) #4
  1. No - as already said it improves cholesterol scores in every way that’s important.
  2. No - especially early on. It is good to exercise for other reasons, just not weight loss
  3. Not quite enough but definitely getting there. Biggest thing is more normal salt than you ever thought possible (5-7g of sodium, about 10g of salt). Maybe just a multivitamin, but we all have different needs.
  4. For some, but most can eat relatively flexibly in calorie terms. I think it is more important not to under-eat, others may disagree but early on it is important NOT to starve yourself. Eat more, mostly fat and your metabolism will eventually (usually) do better at self regulation. Don’t worry about this for the first couple of months at least.
  5. Yes - it will not have any impact on your heart. The science behind fat consumption causing CVD is obsolete rubbish. Check out Nina Teicholz’s Big Fat Surprise for how the old science has been utterly discredited. Fat and even saturated fat won’t kill you unless it’s the formerly pronounced “healthy” fats e.g. polyunsaturated vegetable or seed oils. Those are poison, animal fats are healthy. Read more on this to get comfortable.
  6. :poop: is a very personal issue. Research this further - plenty of threads to search in the forum about various approaches to managing this - some use laxatives, some increase fat, some change diet to remove vegetables, some add more veggies, for some it just goes away as the body adapts (gut biome takes a while to adjust to keto).

Best of luck and KCKO!

(Troy Anthony) #5

You shouldn’t be missing out on iron and calcium by cutting carbs. You have dairy and red meat, along with leafy greens you could indulge in and are great sources. Remember though calcium can inhibit iron absorption, so don’t eat them together if possible. Something that makes me feel good about eating high fat is my sources. It’s more expensive, but eating grass fed animal products and keeping it organic is useful when possible. If we are striving for optimal health, we probably don’t want to be eating sick animals on unnatural, inflammatory diets. I also eat a lot of avocados, nuts, seeds, coconut, etc which are all even classically regarded as healthy. To your point about eating too much fat, I think the above advice is great to start. I will say however, if weight loss is a goal you can’t just eat any amount of calories long term. It’s difficult to eat huge amounts of fat, so perhaps that’s why eating to satieation is thrown around so much, but if you eat more fat calories then you burn daily, then you won’t lose weight. My maintenance calories are around 2500, so if I want to lose a little weight I might drop to 2300 calories for a few weeks. People have trouble when they calorie restrict too much, but you can’t eat over and expect weight loss. Slow and steady.

#6

If you’re worried that you’ll give yourself a heart attack (and how could you not be with everything you’ve been told up to this point?) read The Big Fat Surprise. Get the audiobook and listen while you do chores or walk the dog. :slight_smile: Best of luck to you!

(Ron) #7

This is not entirely true as this explains -

(Alec) #8

Ditto what Rob said.

(Troy Anthony) #10

With all due respect, It’s just someone’s blog and anecdotal evidence. Do you happen to know any authorities who explain this idea more in depth? I understand fat and carb calories are different and cause different hormonal reactions. I have never heard about excess dietary fat being “dumped” however and I also don’t understand how you would lose weight if your body doesn’t need to tap into it’s stored energy. I realize I could just be ignorant but the blog didn’t clarify it’s theory very well and the info does contradict other keto (pro fat diet) theories I have read. I’m open to explore though.

(Ron) #11

This has been discussed to great lengths. You might find them very informative.


(Rob) #12

With all due respect, it is one of several n=1 examples proving the same anecdote. What is interesting is that people in different metabolic states all seem to see similar results. The fitness model who does it maintains or improves body composition. The ordinary (lean but not hard) bloke sees about the same. The metabolically deranged woman who does similar, but more hardcore… 3000kcal/day 96% fat, loses significant weight (she has weight to lose) - 6lbs down in 5 days. I agree that it is not fully understood quite WHY these disprove the CICO bullshit but it is increasingly consistent across diverse test subjects. You are not ignorant in any other sense than the rest of us are since no-one really know why this counterintuitive thing happens.

There is some magic going on which we will eventually understand… but the best takeaway is not even the weight maintenance or loss BUT the fact that their blood work is still good or better, hence allaying some fears from newbs about the general CVD fear mongering.

As I think of it, I don’t need to fundamentally understand in detail how most of my gadgets work but as long as I can trust that they will operate as expected, I’m not so bothered. Not that I would do these experiments (well, I have thought about the 5-day pure fat one), but it is another important element to the overall removal of fat fear.

(Troy Anthony) #13

I appreciate the response but yeah I like to understand things scientifically while also doing my own experimenting. I could point to plenty of vegan blogs that would point out anecdotal evidence to contradict many of the truths here. It wouldn’t make them true. I understand truth is different for different individuals, but I’m honestly just trying to learn. So if someone points out that you could eat 5,000 calories and lose or maintain weight over time, I just want to explore the science. I’ve researched keto and done it for a long time now, and I’ve just never came across that. For me, if I eat a little less calories, usually through IF, I could drop some weight pretty quick. If I eat higher calories, I typically maintain weight. My main hope is to be pointed in the direction of an authority on the subject so I canexplore it further, particularly this idea of excessive dietary fat being “dumped” and that eating excess fat calories can’t cause weight gain. Do you have any sources? Thanks for any direction

(Rob) #14

Please do and let us know what you find. I said it hasn’t been fully explained yet to mine or anyone else’s complete satisfaction here, unless I missed it. Best guesses are probably some combination of raised BMR/TDEE, non-metabolized digestion and/or flushing out with excreta.

The whole point of these experiments isn’t to give you any example to replicate or even cool science, it is to dispel the ridiculous (often vegan propagated) myths around (animal) fat consumption. It is a classic rebuttal to the false conclusion in Supersize Me that Spurlock’s fat intake is what made him fat/sick when it was fairly obviously his carbs (fries, shakes, buns, sugar coke, pastries, etc.). The fact that people successfully do fast food keto also demonstrates this.

To do that, it’s enough for me… the rest is cool magic.

(Troy Anthony) #15

Just to be clear I couldn’t agree with you more. I completely understand how healing this diet is for the metabolism and why someone starting would not worry about calorie restriction. I think IF is typically a form of calorie restriction even if it’s not the intention. If you eat 2 meals a day it’s tough to eat excess calories. I don’t believe it should be the concern however especially with someone trying to get their metabolism corrected. Again though, my inquiry began because I suggested eating excess fat can cause weight gain. I’ll admit I’m not sure if that’s true, or only true for some, but I agree health is the number one concern, not calorie counting. For me though, a healthy 34 year old with no history of metabolic disorders, I tend to lose a little weight with IF and my calories are typically just a little lower during that time. I will explore this idea however, it’s pretty fascinating.

(Rob) #16

It’s obviously true… for some. I told you there are several similar experiments, referenced in some of the other threads you’ve been given. @KetoInThe.UK’s experiment is not by a metabolically healthy person and provides better results. Your question really seems to come down to should it work for you? I don’t know your metabolic history, body’s adaptation to calorie restriction, level of your BMR, your TDEE each day, keto macros, genetic makeup, etc. All these will drive your reactions to various dietary levels. Just the many people who break a plateau by specifically raising total calories with fat e.g. @carl 's pork belly diet, says that it works for more than just a few. There is no need to try a massive fat over-eat to test yourself, just a reshuffling of your macros for a short while to more fat than you intake now. If you are paleo levels (65%) that will be easy, if you are already 85%, then I might not bother.

You seem happy with your IF, calorie restriction (CR) approach so crack on. I don’t think you can assume anything about other people’s IF regimes. I for one can easily out-eat my TDEE in 2 meals, others can do it OMAD (through that is more likely to lead to CR). CR is definitely NOT the magic sauce of IF weight loss, it is insulin restriction. Feel free to argue with Dr Fung.

(Ron) #17

If I may ask, have you tried IF and elevated calorie count ? specifically higher fat consumption?

(Troy Anthony) #18

No the question isn’t for me. I was responding initially to a blog someone shared with me that didn’t do a very good job explaining its science, and made what to me were big claims, so I was asking questions to the original person correcting me about CR. Main question was if I constantly consume dietary fat over my energy needs, what happens to the excess calories? The article referred to “dumping” but didn’t explain anything. And if I have a constant flow of dietary fat, why would my body utilize stored energy (fat)? I understand spiking insulin causes the body to store sugar as fat, but I’ve also heard from many experts that when fasting, your body will use stored body fat for energy. I’ve listened to many podcasts and just never heard what was shared with me, so I was asking for a more legit source that could confirm their point and help me better understand. Not for me personally because I’m trying to lose weight, but just for my understanding so I know why I’m suggesting what I am to people I may be able to help. If your boy Fung explains this I’ll check him out. Easy peasy

(Troy Anthony) #19

I have not, I just eat til I’m full and that’s typically lower when I do IF. This didn’t come up because I was trying to get advice on how to lose more weight, it came up because I was corrected for saying eating less calories could make you lose weight. I was sent an article about an experiment where a guy eats 5,000 calories, mostly fat, a day and loses a little weight. The article didn’t have great explanations so I’m trying to understand how this happens, and if anyone has a good source to help me get it. It seems important if it’s true and I have never came across the idea in my research. So if you have any suggestions on how that works I appreciate the help, thanks.

(Rob) #20

Repeating the question and the response that there isn’t a good answer yet is just circular. The person who posted it doesn’t need your belief to validate it.

You won’t believe it til you see the science that makes it work and you haven’t seen enough in your research to make you comfortable that this is valid. None of that changes its truth or existence. Unequivocal proof isn’t required for most of us since we don’t need that to use these extreme experiments to support our own less extreme experiments and give us comfort with our choices. If it doesn’t help you, then it isn’t important for you. If you find the definitive answer, let us know.

(Troy Anthony) #21

Understanding the things you recommend to strangers doesn’t seem like a high bar, but I get it, you don’t know. I don’t either but If I’m being corrected I like evidence and a legit source to explore to correct my thinking. If you don’t know the answers why jump in and correct me in the first place? You can’t really think you just telling me you don’t know but you believe it was going to be helpful. You act like asking for a logical explanation or a reputable source is crazy. Anyway I really do appreciate you taking the time to try to help me, and now we can both go back to working this paradox haha.