Since I was the one that sent the link, I will reply.
The link was to validate that it has been done and there are individual accounts of it happening. Your post was misleading to the OP.
Never was I attempting to discredit you.
You want the science to explain the results and that its fine, but maybe you should create a new thread instead of hijacking this one.
Like @Capnbob, I too would also be interested if you do find the answer but suggest post a thread so everyone can see.
I was saying it IS sufficiently well explained for most people and most purposes. I gave you multiple mechanisms that seem to be at work (but haven’t been sufficiently tested to be definitive). You want more so feel free to find it but don’t think we are stumbling around in the dark working on blind faith. Sam’s experiment is only one of the more extreme versions of a mechanism that obviously works for many… increase total calories with more fat and gain benefits/lose weight. It’s just true… for many more than just a few freaky people.
Gotcha, This certainly got off track from my initial attempt of trying to offer advice to the OP, but my apologies for participating and hi jacking the thread.
Hey man, I’m not saying it’s not true. I was the one who was originally corrected. I’m all for changing my mind when presented with new evidence. This has certainly been useful and I will continue to explore it. I don’t need 100% proof either, just a logical explanation to how it works. I’m sure some Dr out there has one so I’ll try to find out. I was never arguing it’s not true, but was just explaining my understanding and wanting to know the rationale behind it. Thanks again.
Thanks so much for your answers, really, really helpful and gives me a lot to work on. However, 8 days in and having changed nothing AT ALL…ive put on 2lbs this morning.
I know people say its not all about weight loss, no correct and I feel better, but for me I need weight loos because im sick of seeing the scale creep up over the last 6mths cause of the contraceptive injection I was on that messed me up. Now I tried to make a change, its too going wrong and it gets me down. I know its not the end of the world, it is just disheartening because I haven’t done anything different…if I had then I could tweek things. Its the not understanding that’s off putting.
Weight bounces around, largely with water retention. I’m 7 months in and in the last couple of weeks I have been up 10 and down 12 lbs. The gain was with a consistent diet while the decline was half with that same diet and then some fasting. I don’t mind since it is just water being retained and flushed as my body continues to adapt to keto and my evolving body composition. I am happy that I am still burning fat and in ketosis whatever the scale says.
For women it is more complex with the monthly cycle and you have the complication of the impacts of that injection… fixing things takes time. I didn’t lose more than some water weight for about 6 weeks but now I’m down 60 in 7 months. If you want keto to work, you have to give it time. There is nothing to fear and everything to gain if you stick with it. There are plenty of threads in the newbie section of people who wanted to give up and stuck with it to see all the benefits predicted within a couple of months. It’s up to you but you should at least give it a real chance.
Sorry, I promise im not a moaner but its just disheartening. I know I shouldn’t use the scales often, its a habit im finding hard to break after years of restriction and crappy diets.
Youre absolutely right though and its my fault for looking, cause all it does is put my mind in the danger zone.
Your progress is both amazing and inspiring Rob, thank you for being so understanding…
Which means that your body is in healing mode and looking after itself rather than looking after you with weight loss… KCKO… it will comes but most importantly it will come when your body is ready and prepared for it rather than when you would like it.
Just a thought…the ONLY thing I changed yesterday was having sesame oil, instead of using butter…thought i’d give it a try as it was zero carb. Long shot but could this have been the reason for my gain?
Sesame oil is listed as an oil to avoid due to being higher in polyunsaturated fats, higher levels of omega-6 fatty acids, low levels of omega-3 fatty acids and higher in toxic trans fats. https://www.authoritydiet.com/best-healthy-oils-cook-deep-frying-avoid/
Troy, have you listened to any of the talks by Dr. Ted Naiman? I have heard him say that in his practice, he’s seen people that absolutely do eat too much fat and hit a wall with trying to lose weight while eating way too much fat.
I know Ted is a bit different in his thinking as much of the keto world seems to imply that there’s almost no such thing as too much fat. He also tends to push the upper end of what he considers a healthy amount of protein intake.
I do tend to listen to what he has to say because he is a practicing physician that sees patients. I am aware that he sees a lot of people who are of Indian background, people who are vegans and vegetarians, and may see a somewhat skewed subset of the population. The types of people he sees probably do tend to have rather low levels of protein intake and may be more likely to be adding way more fats to their diet thinking that they will lose weight no matter how much fat they take in. So when I hear him say “people need more protein”, and “yes, they can eat too much fat”, I do try to keep the context of his perspective in mind.
Maybe not adding a whole lot to your quest for scientific studies but just throwing that little tidbit out there.
Good luck with your search, sincerely! And please do share the things you find. Lots of people here are interested, for sure.
I found this video by Dr. Bikman to be useful in understanding what happens to excess dietary fat in the absence of insulin. At least some of it winds up being used as a heat source, along with some being excreted in urine, breath and sweat. I don’t know if you consider him a more credible source or not, I found his science made sense to me.
I found this by dr fung and look at that, seems we were all right about something. I think this applies to the thread because it could also be good info for the OP.
“The practical implication is this. If you are lean and leptin sensitive, then eating more dietary fat, like cheese, will not make you gain weight. However, if you are trying to lose weight, and have some problem with obesity/ insulin/ leptin resistance, then adding extra fat to your meals is NOT a good idea. Once again, you can see that we do not need to go back to that outdated, and useless notion of calories. Obesity is a hormonal, not a caloric, imbalance.
What can you do instead? Well, eating more carbs is not a good idea. Neither is eating more protein. Nor is eating more fat. So, what is left? That’s what we call fasting.
At this point, you might worry about nutrient deficiency. That is why so many people talk about nutrient density. How can you get the maximum nutrients for the minimum calories? This is muddled thinking. Why do I care? Ask yourself this – are you worried about treating obesity or nutrient deficiency? If you choose obesity, then worry about obesity. You don’t need more nutrients, you need less. Less of everything.”
So seems like it’s not a great idea for everyone to throw caution to the wind when it comes to fat consumption unless you are metabolically fit. I don’t think a newbie needs to focus on fasting, but telling them that eating over energy needs even with fat can cause weight gain is not horrible advice.
Hi MonkeyNuts,
I’m a noob six weeks into Keto and here to tell you that it isn’t that bad and to give support to others struggling a bit. This forum is great because there are plenty of people who have been where you are and have done well on Keto. Can I say 8 days in is nothing to worry about except perhaps No.6 on your list which can make you worried and also another source of not losing weight. I was a bit surprised that constipation was not one of the first topics I was advised about when beginning and I’m assuming here that the experienced people all have their own solutions for dealing with it.
My shared opinion is that this diet has the effect on my digestive system of slowing the time it takes to move waste from the intestines to the bowels. That’s my opinion and not based on any scientific facts, if you have some I’d be interested to read it but that’s a fact in my experience. I wish I’d known before I started so it wasn’t such a surprise when it happened. Added to that on a low carb diet you don’t have the bulk that you probably had eating whole grains, fibre, etc. Its just not there anymore so I’m guessing that the normal peristalsis we had before Keto is somehow changed. Not sure why but that’s my guess based on me being regular (daily) before I started. To me dropping carbs shouldn’t do that right, well it does believe me. So it has to be something to do with the type or lack of food going through our digestive system, I’d like expert opinions myself on how that is possible?
I have my own solution on clearing constipation that works for me but may not work for you, I stop eating and go into a fast, and drink a minimum of 2litres of water daily, and also have some beer to free things up. Laxatives may help and in my case they didn’t either so I went with the beer. I used to drink a lot of beer in my youth which makes me an expert in that area, I always remember the way I would spray paint the toilet bowel the next morning after a good drinking session. Anyway this may bring a bit of levity to your plight but I imagine the pain in your gut is not funny, Keto on and all the best! …usual disclaimer attached, I am not a medical expert, etc, etc.
Beer? Doesn’t that kick you out of ketosis??
Don’t get me wrong, my health is very important and so early on, I’m feeling good…bloat gone, backache gone and getting restful sleep so it’s fantastic in that respect.
But weight is really important, not cause I’m obsessive but I gained very quick due to coming off a god awful contraceptive pill and weight gain was a horrid side effect that no-one told me about. I refuse to buy a new wardrobe and just need to lose the excess baggage that suddenly appeared. Now 2 weeks gone and I just keep going up and down the same 2lbs and I don’t get it…really, really don’t. I’ve done nothing to explain it, I’m not expecting miracles, absolutely not but just want to understand why or if there’s something to remedy this. I’ve done an 18hr fast today and had just under 700cals which isn’t intentional. So if I lose, I’m guessing it’ll go back on again when I eat 2-3 meals. Confused.com!!!
Who cares if it does, when your constipated you aren’t going to lose weight if you keep eating. Its normal to have regular bowel movements so that needs to be addressed. It was only one beer but it seemed to help clear the obstruction, I say use whatever method works to get your digestive system working properly again. (Of course seek professional medical advice if constipation persists).
I’m only 0.4kg away from celebrating a 10kg loss since starting Keto, my weight loss has been slow by former diet standards but this is a good thing. I don’t want to lose it fast anyway; currently my average is around 1.5 kg a week which is half of what I normally do on calorie controlled diets. Females are notorious for losing weight at a much reduced rate, my wife is on the same diet as me and she has only lost 3.7kg over the same period. That is normal but can be disheartening if you have a lot to lose.
So the game plan for us has been:
We do not do long fasts at the moment just wanting to keep it simple. Yeah so that’s us in a nutshell.
I see some people like Alec saying that we don’t need to exercise but then he’s posting how he just did a 10K run on Keto, come on man exercise is part of the deal of losing weight!!
The principle in Keto weight loss is to lose it by tapping into your own fat reserves instead, by getting the body to convert fat to energy(ketones), but if you are over-eating 2000-3000 cals a day don’t expect to lose, equally don’t drop your calories to below 1500 and trigger the body into starvation mode where it virtually stores everything you eat. You said you were on 700 calories or less, that raises red flags for me, I bet you’re hungry too. I’ve never starved on this Keto program which we find amazing but really not surprising when you read about how that’s possible.
Thank you, I appreciate your advice…it really does help.
However, your list…I’m doing all of them? The only one is poop, no longer regular after the first week! And salt, apart from salting my food, I’m eating 1/3 teaspoon of salt and 1/3 teaspoon of lo-salt. Everything else, im doing as you said which is upsetting.
I had 675 cals yesterday, only cause I was out at a theme park with no access to carb free food and I wasn’t hungry anyway. It didn’t budge anything either :0( but I average 1500-2000 usually.
After 2 weeks, up and down the same 2lbs and measurements are the same as when I started.
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong…I was thinking of having a big carb blowout today, hoping it might shake things up and get me to the toilet too. Just feeling a little down at the moment cause I’m trying so hard.
That’s an important one to fix, after I flushed my system the next day on my weigh-in I’d lost nearly a kilo over-night, that’s how much I’d backed up.
675 cals is low unless you are fasting I would take it up within the range you quoted. It sounds counter-productive that you need to eat more to lose more but that’s how strange our bodies are. They are quite amazing what they will do. When I would plateau on a vicious 1500 cal plan, my JC counselor would tell me to eat a chocolate bar to shock the body out of starvation. The body is panicking and storing reserves from anything you eat when it thinks its being starved, staying on 675 cals is just going to make it store more, its a steady spiral. Starvation is not the way to go long term.
No 675cals was only yesterday and not intentional but as I said, it’s usually 1500-2000. You’re right, eating so much on a diet is so alien to me but I’ve been doing it, and enjoying it.
I’m going to eat some bad stuff today, what a chore haha, but fingers crossed it’ll get something cranking into action. I just hope it doesn’t do any damage, which has me in a bit of a fizz.
Do you think my salt intake is enough of too much…I feel so weird eating so much salt, just seems so unhealthy!