High Fat

(Martin Arnold) #1

Before reaching maintenance (ie while still losing weight), Phinney and Volek recommend eating less fat. What can inhibit the body fro using its own stores during this time, other than eating too much fat?

Eating Fat to Satiety
Ketoing for over a month, still confused
How do these diets differ? Moderate vs. High Protein?
New to this and loving it but
#2

Insulin will drastically inhibit the release of fatty acids from adipose tissue from the suppression of Hormone Sensitive Lipase (HSL).

(Richard Morris) #3

Eating anything will raise insulin - just stretching the stomach will cause a release. So limiting the amount of meals you eat is a good strategy. If you have to stretch your stomach do it as few times a day as you can.

Eating Carbs obviously raises insulin… Yeah don’t eat carbs … but you knew that right :slight_smile:

Eating protein raises insulin by roughly 50% (I think the exact amount is 56%) of carbohydrate. You need some protein, but I would suggest finding out how much that number of and not going over it.

Stress can cause a release of insulin indirectly.

Fasting, autophagy, and fat supplementation
(Mike W.) #4

Even pure fat? Bone broth? I’m still trying to figure out what breaks my fast and what doesn’t. Just 20:4 IF, not long term

(Sara Lamberto) #5

@richard I’ve heard this before and wondered if it matters what stretches your stomach? For instance, if I chugged a bunch of water and it stretched my stomach would insulin be released?

(Stephanie Hanson) #6

I’ve wondered that too.

(Martin Arnold) #7

Can you cite a source for the claim that eating fat raises insulin?

#8

Stress and lack of sleep will have a big impact, so will mood disorders and basically any existing condition can and probably will impact.

and what is “too much fat” - you will find that is a hotly debated topic!

(Martin Arnold) #9

I posted here for a reason, i need to see evidence. Too many people in the keto community just make claims and don’t back them up. Show us a source please

#10

You need to scale down your slightly aggressive attitude pal. People can comment how they choose.

(Martin Arnold) #12

I wasn’t being aggressive.

This is a forum specifically about the science, so it’s counter productive to present assertions in that context without evidence.

#14

Look. This is a place where people are free to comment and speak as they like. When you post a topic looking for answers it is polite to simply take what you will from the people who take the time to respond. If there are comments you don’t find useful, simply pass them by. There is no need at all to be rude to people when they comment just because it is not to your liking or exactly what you were looking for. And, yes, this comment is just as off topic as the other one (that you flagged). I am doing this in public because this is not the first time you have behaved this way and likely not the last. IMO - useful info for anybody reading this post.

(Richard Morris) #15

Nope Dr Bernstein famously says you could eat gravel and it would release insulin.

The term you want to look for is “pre-absorptive or cephalic phase insulin secretion”

https://www.google.com/search?q=pre-absorptive+cephalic+phase+of+insulin+secretion

(carl) #16

The thing to remember is that eating fat and filing your stomach with water or gravel may result in a minor release of insulin, it will be nothing even close to what happens when you eat carbs. In a discussion without numbers like this, it’s easy to imagine incorrectly.

Check out Dr. Fung’s website http://intensivedietarymanagement.com where he cites studies about insulin release.

(Nick) #17

You don’t even need the gravel. For some, just thinking about food can lead to insulin secretion!
Influence of external and covert food stimuli on insulin secretion in obese and normal persons

(Richard Morris) #18

BTW in general I encourage people to ask for a source here.

So for example Martins assertion that “eating too much fat inhibits the body using it’s own stores”.

I’ve never seen a study show that release of energy from body fat is inhibited by absorption of a dietary source of fat (ie: absent cephaic/vagal insulin secretion).

My understanding is that the other caloric nutrients certainly do by triggering the secretion of insulin and switching the body from fat burning to glucose burning including turning off the release of free fatty acids from fat cells into circulation to be burned.

Dietary fat (long chained) get packaged into lipoproteins to be shipped throughout the body to all consumers including fat cells to replace energy being released from body fat.for use … that doesn’t STOP body fat being used, just replaces it potentially at a rate faster than it is being drawn down. As far as I know you are still always burning body fat when your insulin is low enough.

(Adam Kirby) #19

So would that scenario prevent one lowering their body fat, Richard? I’ve been doing keto for 6 months and seem to be stalled on fat loss (5’8M, 168-170 lbs, somewhat muscular). I’ve been wondering lately if I’m eating too much fat and if I should cut back, but I’m trying to to not go back into the whole calorie-restricting mindset. I am genuinely wondering how to hack my body for additional fat loss. Maybe longer IF fasting window…

(Richard Morris) #20

You can try it and see what happens. When we are keto we get energy from fat. So reducing fat is a proxy for reducing energy coming in.

The question you probably want to know is; am I going to be slowing my metabolic rate if I decrease my energy coming in. The answer to that is maybe - your body will know.

I would try in increments until your body gives you clear signs that you are coming up against your personal line in the sand…

If you stop losing weight, that’s a sign. Or if you start to become cold in your extremities - that could be a sign. Cold extremities could mean that your body is no longer wasting energy heating blood, a sign that you are entering a budgetary negotiation.

You can also get a test of your fasting insulin. If it’s under 13 then you probably can still easily mobilize body fat. Once it goes over 13 you can’t easily move that body fat.

(Adam Kirby) #21

Thanks. That’s another thing that really confuses me the more I read on it… the slowing of the metabolism. Does that only happen when your insulin is too high to allow you to mobilize your body fat while restricting energy in at the same time? If you restrict your food intake while insulin sensitive does your metabolism keep chugging along because it has access to body fat, or does it slow even then?

(Martin Arnold) #22

That isn’t my assertion, it is the assertion of Dr Phinney. His well formulated keto diet advocates, until maintenance is reached, to eat less dietary fat in order to burn the body’s own stores. If that is incorrect then by all means cite a source.