New(ish) and Now Struggling

(Michelle) #127

May I ask why you are trying to stick to a ketogenic way of eating even though you don’t like it? Life is too short to not have a way of eating that suits you. If Keto is not it, then please, find something you do like and also likes you back.

(Martin Arnold) #128

because i believe myself to be carb sensitive and it is meant to be an effective weight loss mechanism. I have lost some weight as well.

This diet is only problematic now because of this unresolved hunger issue. For the first couple of weeks I was sated after my meals. Why that has changed is the issue.

(Michelle) #129

So, just go low carb then. Don’t worry about fat adaptation, keto, or having to worry so much about fat/protein ratios. Just eat low carb and fill yourself with protein and some fat (to your liking).

Too much protein will keep you in a glucose burning state. This may be preventing you from becoming fat adapted anyway (worrying too much about getting protein grams). So, do away with keto and just go low carb. You will still see benefits if you are carb sensitive.

(Martin Arnold) #130

It has been suggested that i’ve been eating too much protein so today i’m trying a smaller amount.

But how much protein is too much?

It’s not the fat adaptation element that is the issue right now, it’s the hunger cravings. That is what I have been trying to address. I could well have those problems if i stuck with low carb and not keto. But the two are synonymous, depending on what you call low carb. I have no great issue with the idea of keto low carb other than to ensure i get enough nutrients

(Michelle) #131

For me, too much protein would be the amount that kicks me out of ketosis. For you, I have no idea,

#132

@ketoisland has a nice summary of all the different expert opinions on protein, but the common recommended range is 0.7 grams to 1.5 grams per kilogram of lean body mass. However, there are people consuming far more than that and still in ketosis while others consume far less; more than about 1.0 grams per kilogram of LBM is too much for me personally on a regular basis.

(Martin Arnold) #133

What is that amount for you?

(Martin Arnold) #134

In the podcast discussing protein, they refer to the macro calculator i used. That gives me a default protein intake of 104g/day (1.8 x LBM).

There’s a very large range between .7 and 1.5 times.

Protein can’t be the issue for me if I’m still in ketosis, and, while the pee sticks aren’t ideal, they show me that i’m producing them, and passing them.

So I can’t have exceeded the protein intake threshold for glucose, surely?

Therefore is fat the culprit? Having looked at Atkins (or at least the 2002 version I found online), his sample meals aren’t dripping in additional fats and sauces, there are no fatbombs nor bulletproof coffee etc. So perhaps I shouldn’t be adding all this extra stuff, just eating regular food with the fat and not the low fat/processed rubbish.

Clearly something, in what i’ve been eating (or lacking from it) is invoking this hunger and preventing satiety between meals. It may also inhibit fat adaptation.

(bulkbiker) #135

and therein lies your problem…
You come and ask for advice ignore it and then wonder why people get pissed off, you then blame the diet that you aren’t following.
I’m guessing you are also “ghost_whistler” on diabetes.co.uk if not you have a twin…

(Martin Arnold) #136

I think you’ve completely misrepresented me here. All I’m saying is that I will listen to what someone says, but I am not going to commit to agreeing with them just because.

If someone has something to say, I’ll listen. I can’t say fairer than that surely?

In what way am I not following the diet? If you’re going to criticise me, it’s only fair you back up what you say.

(eat more) #137

THIS is the problem!
r/keto is deficit/calorie/starvation/scale obsessed…this forum is science obsessed :blush:

i’m female and you’ve got me by a good 50lbs (and i have presumably less body fat) and i eat MORE than you do…at a moderate deficit

forget everything you “learned” on r/keto

read, watch, and listen to the resources provided…

recalculate your macros without a deficit (and not a sedentary activity level if you are NOT sedentary)

be creative with fat…you don’t have to drown your food in oils or butter or spend loads of money to get fat in

and FFS eat!

you aren’t a mutant that keto doesn’t work for…you’re not fat adapted and starving…no wonder you’re hungry

i repeat forget everything you “learned” at r/keto and EAT

(Lauren Casapulla) #138

Eat up to or less than your fat macros if you need to burn body fat. Not simply “eat less fat.”

(Lauren Casapulla) #139

Excess protein won’t kick you out of ketosis.

(Martin Arnold) #140

Here’s what i eat:
Breakfast - avocado, kale, sausages, bacon/pork slice.

Lunch - spinach, grated cheese, nuts, sliced meat (pork or sausages depending on what I didn’t eat for breakfast, possibly even a chicken thigh), some EVOO

Dinner - pork chop, chicken leg, venison burger, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower.

I don’t know what more to add. This is what the calculator says at a 0% deficit:

Generated by Keto Calculator 9.12

43/M/5’6" | CW 183 | 29.3% BF | Custom expenditure: 1990 kcal

  • 1990 kcal Goal, a 0% deficit. (766 min, 1990 max)
  • 20g Carbohydrates
  • 104g Protein (78g min, 129g max)
  • 166g Fat (30g min, 166g max)
(Martin Arnold) #141

Right now I want to not be hungry all the time

(Martin Arnold) #142

Surely if it will if it causes glucose production, isn’t that why it’s contraindicated?

#143

Whether or not excess protein will kick someone out of ketosis has not been settled and is controversial at best and I don’t consider it to be good advice telling someone that it won’t have an effect, especially since the definition of “excess” will vary greatly from person to person and based on different circumstances for the same person over time.

I know for a fact that I cannot eat a lean steak for dinner and still be in ketosis the next morning, whatever the mechanism, the result is that I cannot eat protein without considering how it will impact staying in ketosis.

(eat more) #144

eggs
olives
fat bombs
coconut oil
heavy whipping cream
cream cheese
nut butters

i have NO problem reaching my fat target

your calculator report says 5% deficit it did when i wrote the post :thinking:

from a diff calculator (there are many methods)…note the 30% which is too much of a deficit in my opinion is closer to what your calculator’s result shows
this was generated with your stats and “moderately active” activity level

IMG_0440.PNG1536×1779 527 KB

(Martin Arnold) #145

So these calculators don’t even agree.

You’re also assuming that 1003g protein isn’t too high either.

186g of fat is something I would struggle with, I know that people on here think that’s ridiculous, but there it is. It’s not so much fatphobia as a practical response. I simply don’t have that much fat in the house (and I don’t get on with eggs at all).

I’ve just had a venison burger cooked in butter with the remains of a pot of cream (about 100ml or so). Another coconut oil drink and that is going to be all I think i can scrape by at the moment. Surely that’s enough. I calculate that at about 130-140g fat.

(eat more) #146

well everyone has tried to help. provided resources and advice but you keep coming up with road blocks…
i don’t see how you can say that keto doesn’t work or complain that you’re hungry if you aren’t open to information
…if you knew better you wouldn’t be here…or maybe you’re just bored

it’s the simplest way i’ve ever eaten but i don’t create obstacles for myself

best of luck

ps venison is one of the lowest fat meats so you could eat higher fat