New here, seeking advice, tips for success

(doggonnit) #1

I’m late 40s, male 208 or so, 29% bf. I seem to have gained some weight during the pandemic. Sort of hard to say as the home scale does not seem to be accurate in that once in a while I have two pounds over a week, which seems impossible. So I think it’s inherent scale errors. Gyms closed, and it’s too hot in SoCal to be exercising outside much. I don’t do well with heat especially when exercising. I have been interested in keto since hearing success stories from several people. My middle age weight gain has been on my mind a lot. UGH. Keto seemed easy if yoIu could get used to the lack or carbs. I have been reading about it off and on and watching some youtube videos. Finally realized why don’t I just try it! Two weeks ago began trying to eat correctly. Understanding ketosis and fat adaptation now (I think) and bought a ketonix “red” meter online. (Used, disinfected it for safety) I have not seen any of the keto flu or changes I’ve read about. BUT may readings over the last seven days (usually first thing am) have gone fro 14ppm to 27ppm over the course of the week. So I’m guessing that’s good? Difficulty understanding how to use the device means the first few days might have bad readings. The instructions are awfully terrible. So is their website, as far as user guides and understanting the data.

My goal is fat loss. I’ve put on a tire (bike tire, not a truck tire) around the middle and want to lose it. I hate cooking. Yes, I’m lazy. I did not eat lots of prepared foods even before trying keto, so that’s good. My diet used to be lots of lean chicken, simply cooked with veg on the side. Honestly pretty dull for most people. Now getting into eating the same way I used to but adding fat for keto. For instance, switching to chicken thighs with skin and fat. Or 80/20 ground beef patty. Veg is often steamed with butter added, or often cheese on it. Salad with olive oil, and some shredded cheese. I’m trying to stick to my simple cooking lifestyle and switch what I’m eating within that. One thing that I wonder is if I"m getting enough fat, and part of that is knowing how much to eat. I see different things in different places about this. Trying to understand how many calories I should be eating, and have never counted calories before, so learning what to eat and kinds of calories at same time. There are many online calculators for calorie needs but get confused that the numbers are different, which (like my home scale) makes me think they are really not accurate.

Understanding that for basic weight loss I need a calorie deficit, so I have to count calories. But to do that I need to know how many to eat (or not eat). At 80% calories from fat as the overall goal, seems like I should be reducing my calories from fats, as my carbs are so low. It was recommended that I use KetoDiet app and I do like it. I like protein enough that I seem to do over on that, but understanding it’s not a big deal. My carb intake has been 3-4% of calories every day. Only screwed up a few times and it went up to 15%. I find it hard to go out of my way to ingest fat to get to the recommended grams, and I have not tried any fat bombs. Have not seen the point of them. I’ve been eating 66-70% calories from fat. That 10% seems like it should help me lose fat/get to ketosis but no results yet. Unless my ketonix results show otherwise?

I looked up some confusing things about “how much to eat” and got varying answers. (Seem too be eating about 1800 calories, below a 2000 calorie threshold.) “Eat more to increase metabolism” was a common response. So, confused, since only eating when hungry is the keto mantra. I have been skipping breakfast lately (except my coffee with cream).

Thoughts or advice soon this? Sorry for the rambling.

#2

I lost all the fat I lost at a calorie deficit (what else?) without counting (not on keto but that’s not the point)… We don’t lose fat because we count. On keto, many people automatically eat at a deficit. Many of us don’t but I consider finding a style when it happens better than enforcing numbers when we often have not much idea about our ever changing energy need anyway. And it’s more complicated for others.

Percentages rarely matter, it’s about grams. Low enough carbs, enough protein, enough calories, whatever the last one means. 1800 kcal seems low for your stats but of course no one can tell your energy need and how you feel with it and what your metabolism do. I would listen to my body as it works for me and see what happens if I get satiated all the time as it’s quite basic for me.
For a newbie ketoer, it’s most important to get used to the woe and not being super strict, I think.

I don’t use devices so I leave that’s for the others but if you eat little carbs (below 20g net is usually good for people, some need to go lower, some are better with total and many can get away with much more), you will be in ketosis. It’s good if you don’t get the keto flu, many of us never have it, it’s the best scenario. Ketosis isn’t the same for everyone, there are no sure signs as far as I know, maybe water weight if your bodyweight is usually super stable…

I like cooking but I like simple, quick dishes on most days, keto is good for that. You have so many options.

I usually track since many years (I take breaks for reasons). It’s not nice, don’t do that. I am curious and I had to do it sometimes anyway but it’s not good. I don’t lose any fat since I count but I got important information. It’s great for a little while to figure out our numbers but every day… No, I definitely can’t advice that.

66-70% fat is what I do (sometimes it’s way lower if I eat little on that day, it’s normal), it’s very natural as all my favorite dishes are like this, do whatever is easy and what works. It can be 60% or 80%, it usually doesn’t matter as long as your protein intake isn’t too off, it should be at least adequate, some of us are fine with somewhat high, occasionally very high (like me), I know little about very high but I rather don’t go there, unnecessary and probably not the best. But I wouldn’t worry about it as long as the fat intake isn’t super low and everything feels right.

I would eat to satiation and see what happens. And tweak my woe if it doesn’t give good enough results but I would be patient in the first months, let your body to get used to the new woe and get other benefits. Sometimes fat adaptation brings the breakthrough.

#3

It’s my take that calories should be ignored, because if you’re tracking macros, you’re already tracking calories.

However, your macros should be in grams, not percentages. The proteins macro is a lower limit, while the carbs and fats macros are upper limits. There are no essential carbs, so that macro could be zero. You have some leeway, for the sake of convenience and sustainability, since the purpose of keeping carb intake low is to be in ketosis. Your body’s need for proteins should primarily be based on how much lean body mass you have. That has nothing to do with caloric intake.

After that, ideally, it should be hunger that determines how many fats and additional proteins (and thus calories) you need to eat, if only because any way of eating (keto or otherwise) that leaves you hungry all the time just won’t be sustainable.

But – something I have to remind myself of daily:

Hunger is not habitual eating. Hunger is not emotional eating. Hunger is not mindless eating. Hunger is not recreational eating. Hunger is eating to provide the body with the fuel and raw materials it needs to function.

So my simple concept of keto is “Minimal carbs. Adequate proteins. Fats as needed (for satiety).”

(UsedToBeT2D) #4

You don’t need to count calories. Just cut the carbs. Keto cooking is easy once you clear the kitchen of everything with carbs and sugar. Eggs bacon butter unprocessed meat cheese whipping cream pork rinds. Start with those. You will need to prep your meals more, but in the long run you will have more time because you won’t be spending time eating all the time.bacon reheats very well and is delicious cold. Eat slowly, stop when you are satisfied (learn to recognize satiety). Don’t snack.
Bake sugar loaded cookies, but don’t eat them. Take them to work and give them to your friends. They will love it, and you can chuckle while they get fatter and you get slimmer.

(doggonnit) #5

I guess I understand fat adaptation is when your body has no problem going to fat for fuel. But the concept of getting there and being fat adapted but not being in ketosis I still find confusing.

#6

What is confusing? You need ketosis to get there but afterwards you don’t immediately lose fat adaptation just because you aren’t in ketosis.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

You need enough fat to replace the calories lost from eliminating carbohydrate. If you are getting enough at mealtime to satisfy yourself during the hours before the next meal, then you are getting enough fat. If you need to snack between meals, then eat something fatty, and increase your food at the next meal.

Some people need more protein, some less. If you are not getting enough protein you will know it, because you will be hungry and tired. Until you have enough protein, you won’t likely be satisfied, no matter how much fat you eat. But once your protein is adequate, fat should be satisfying. Reducing insulin by cutting carbohydrate intake will allow your hunger and satiety hormones to register properly in your brain (the part called the ventromedial hypothalamus), and your appetite will start being a reliable guide to how much to eat. At first you may find yourself eating what feels like too much, but once the hormones re-regulate themselves, you will likely find yourself stopping eating rather suddenly during a meal. It’s a very different sensation from that of a full-to-bursting stomach.

#8

Hear. Hear.

Before keto, I was ravenously hungry all the time.

Even when my belly was hurting because I’d eaten too much. The more I’d eat, the “hungrier” I’d get. :frowning:

(doggonnit) #9

This has been a confusing topic to understand. I remember watching a Thomas de Lauer piece on it several times to grasp the concept. I have since realized his explanations are long winded and not helpful. So you get “fat adapated” just once after going through ketosis? I seem to understand it takes some time in ketosis to get there as well.

(Laurie) #10

Hi, Too New. Don’t let all the explanations and numbers get you down. They are something to think about if you’re having trouble. It seems that you have a good grasp of the basics.

I like to cook and eat very simply too. You’re doing fine.

#11

Yes, it does. And that’s about all I know, people talk about deeper fat adaptation, I just know my hunger and appetite drastically changed at a single point (7 weeks after I went keto) so I guess that was (some level of?) fat adaptation. It’s not that sudden for others and some people have this hunger/appetite change right in ketosis…

#12

It’s always so odd for me to read… Carbs definitely made me hungrier (unlike most people, it seems. I never saw it made others hungry) but I was almost always very satiated on high-carb (only hungry before my meals). It took a ton of fat and protein (I massively overate on high-carb, I am sure) but I ate until I was satiated. My stomach had an impressive capacity but I had dense food too and I quickly learned it should be very, very fatty and protein rich so I ate that way, at least after a bunch of carbs… I had some very failed tries to get satiated with only carbs and fat… It never happened. So I ate some satiating food as well.

Full stomach has absolutely nothing to do with satiation IMO, at least not for many of us.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

Fat adaptation is the ability of your muscles to easily metabolise fatty acids in place of glucose. On a long-term high-carbohydrate diet, the fat-metabolism pathways get deactivated from lack of use. When we cut carbohydrate and embark on a ketogenic diet, the muscles limp along on ketones until the full fatty-acid-metabolism pathways are reactivated. In most people the reactivation period is around six to eight weeks.

It is possible to deactivate these pathways again, if you start eating a lot of carbohydrate again, but an occasional excess of carbohydrate should not be a problem.

(Marianne) #14

Yes; I can relate to this statement. I used to love to binge and eat mass quantities of food - while I was doing it. Afterward, I would feel shame and hopelessness. In spite of eating so much, I felt insatiable.

(Stuart Young) #15

This. I don’t think I will ever get used to this. Something so incomprehensible before Keto. I didn’t think I could ever get ‘full’. Now, jees Louis, I can just suddenly stop, even while chewing a mouthful of food. I don’t think I can ever explain it to my family who all eat ‘healthy carbs’ (and are still overweight bless 'em).

(Scott) #16

Eat low carb and high fat! that is all you need to worry about right now. Don’t complicate things by trying calorie deficit, fasting or exercise at the same time. ferret out the carbs and embrace fat, that’s it. It will suck as you go through carb withdrawal but you get over it. After that you will find it easy and enjoyable. I am over two years in and don’t count or restrict at all. 5 months ago I gave up veggies and I thought it was a crazy idea but found that I like it and lost a little more weight. Talk about easy to cook, it doesn’t get any easier than carnivore. So right now get your body trained to burn fat for the next two or three months. After that you can tweak thing to suit you better.

(doggonnit) #17

I only want to lose 20 pounds or so. Even ten pounds. Supposedly I have 140 pounds of lean muscle mass. I do understand that lower amount to lose, the slower it can be to see results. How do I know if I should I be eating more fat than I am? I’ve been tracking so far and the way it’s set up I’m eating (very) roughly half the recommended fat grams. I’m eating fattier things rather than “eating fat”. The latter sounds to me like filling out their calorie needs by eating table spoons of butter. I do have concerns about not eating enough and slowing my metabolism but not feeding it. I’ve had people tell me my calorie intake seems quite low for my size.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #18

Are you hungry a lot? How much protein are you eating?

These questions are relevant, because scientists believe that all mammals (including us) have an instinct for getting enough protein, so a diet low in protein will not satisfy us, no matter what else we eat. But protein requirements are highly individual, apparently, so it may take some experimentation to get to whatever is the right level for you. Signs of protein deficiency are lethargy, fatigue, feeling cold, and so forth.

Once you think you’re getting enough protein, then eat enough fat to satisfy your hunger, whatever that amount may be. Don’t fear the calories in fat, because fat contains twice as much calories as protein or carbohydrate, so it should take less to satisfy you. As long as you are keeping your carbohydrate intake low and getting enough protein, you can afford to eat fat, and your appetite should guide you to the right amount to eat.

Studies have shown that individuals on a low-carbohydrate ad libitum diet tend to spontaneously eat at a level that allows both their dietary and excess stored fat to be metabolised. In fact, the fat-burning part of the metabolism appears to speed up, so that the body can metabolise more fat.

So the advice for people on a ketogenic diet is to eat when hungry (not to the clock), eat until satisfied and then stop, and don’t eat again until hungry again. Many people who eat this way spontaneously find themselves eating only one or two meals a day, in contrast to the three meals plus three snacks that most of us needed when we were carb-burners.

(Scott) #19

I don’t count but I eat eggs bacon and sausage each morning. I leave the grease in the pan and add butter for some extra fat. Love ribeye steaks and add lots of butter to those and eat 100% of any fat on the steak. Blood lipids are great and my CAC score is a 2 in one artery. The best answer is use lots of butter and eat some fatty meats and the rest will take care of itself. Oh, saturated fat is now the “good” fat and processed seed oils are the bad fats.

(doggonnit) #20

Definitely feeling out the difference between being hungry and not. New way of thinking. Never get to stomach growling stage, and sometimes decide I’m hungry if I get a bit of that. Trying not to snack, but occasionally eat some cheese between meals.

As far as protein goes, I’m eating about 125-150g a day. My scale tells me (unless it’s lying) I have 140lb of muscle mass. I used to try and eat high protein, so keep wondering if I’m overdoing it, since I’m used to eating about the amount I’m eating. I LIKE protein, so eating less feels like I’m holding it back.

Couple of week in, and don’t see any big changes. Get worried about things like not getting enough food, and slowing metabolism. I don’t seem to get any good sense of how to know the answer to that, other than I’m not really hungry. I have been trying to eat dinner at roughly 8pm then fast until 1pm lunch the next day. My ketone levels (ketonix) taken first thing am, have risen to about 30ppm. It’s that point on their scale where green turns to yellow. I have yet to look at levels later on before lunch, but I gather that yellow readings indicate ketosis and in fasting mode. Hate over complicating things, but I looking to be on track for results!